Cambridge University Attendees---IMSLP needs your help!

[daphnis]

Do you attend Cambridge University as a student, faculty or staff? If so, IMSLP needs your help! If you fit any of these descriptions, PM me to find out how you can help us with a project.

[jujimufu]

Is this Cambridge University, UK? Or a similarly-named one in the US?

If it's in the UK I can send an e-mail around my uni (which is in London) asking if anyone knows anyone working or studying in Cambridge.

If it's in the US, good luck

Can the rest of us know a bit more about the project, or not yet?

[daphnis]

Is this Cambridge University, UK? Or a similarly-named one in the US?

Sorry, Cambridge University, UK

Can the rest of us know a bit more about the project, or not yet?

I prefer to not reveal what can be contributed, but needless to say there are several rare scores which either IMSLP has incompletely or not at all, and obviously these are quite rare hence the request Rest assured, however, that the potential contributions are safely public domain in Canada and the UK.

Since I originally posted this request, I've sadly had no one from Cambridge contact me

[jujimufu]

Have you sent an e-mail to Cambridge University itself to ask if they can forward this to any people interested/music students?

If you write a formal letter on behalf of IMSLP, I am sure they will forward it.

I will send an e-mail around my uni and see if I get any responses.

Best of luck, we need those rare scores!

[daphnis]

Have you sent an e-mail to Cambridge University itself to ask if they can forward this to any people interested/music students?

No I have not, primarily because the reception to our site and various library scanning projects seem to be mixed with some libraries like Sibley all for our cause while others will do anything to thwart entry of what they perceive as their "personal property" into the public domain, especially those on-line.

[jujimufu]

That's a bit nasty..

I would hope the guys in Cambridge University would be more open-minded than that.

Would it be of any disadvantage (to the people from Cambridge who would try and get these scores) if you sent an e-mail? You could just send an e-mail that asks for people from Cambridge University to participate in a project with the IMSLP, without mentioning the scanning of rare scores. You could even say that it's a project among a lot of other universities, and you're just asking if they could also forward this to the Cambridge students - I don't think they'd have any problems with that. Well, if they do, just don't bother any more and wait until someone from Cambridge gets back to you, in which case nothing's lost

[daphnis]

Juji, I agree, however I've learned to be careful in what and how much to disclose to libraries since they often employ people who, as I mentioned above, believe the items in their collection are their personal property and are more often than not coldly receptive to people giving full disclosure of their intentions for the score in question, even if that falls well within legal limit. There have been several instances with libraries and librarians actually blacklisting me because I disclosed my intent to them beforehand.

I'm almost positive they wouldn't hear forwarding it to their students as I've also been told flat-out 'no' to a request of this nature.

[Philidor]

These little-Hitler librarians need dealing with. I know two librarians and will have a word with them to see what they think. I know for a fact they'll approve strongly of IMSLP but wonder (a) what they think of their 'anal' colleagues and (b) how they should best be dealt with. Someone from IMSLP should maybe have a slot on the main librarian training courses to squish these sorts of attitudes before they become embedded. Or at least publish some training material on public domain music for inclusion on the compulsory reading list for librarian courses.

There have been several instances with libraries and librarians actually blacklisting me because I disclosed my intent to them beforehand.

That's not good enough. You're being punished for being courteous, behaving legally and ethically, and helping make thousands of volumes of music available worldwide for the price of an internet connection. You should get a medal, not prune lips from some Scrooge-like librarian!

[daphnis]

Without taking this thread further off topic, I'll just address your point when you say:

Or at least publish some training material on public domain music for inclusion on the compulsory reading list for librarian courses.

This tends to be the source of the unfounded rancor against me when disclosing my intent, for instead of becoming familiar with their respective country's copyright laws, they view everything as under copyright and guard it very closely, sometimes to the point of interrogating a patron/customer before granting access to a particular item.

[Philidor]

Without taking this thread further off topic

Sorry, my fault...

I'll just address your point when you say:

Or at least publish some training material on public domain music for inclusion on the compulsory reading list for librarian courses.

This tends to be the source of the unfounded rancor against me when disclosing my intent, for instead of becoming familiar with their respective country's copyright laws, they view everything as under copyright and guard it very closely, sometimes to the point of interrogating a patron/customer before granting access to a particular item.

If IMSLP had official representation on just one key librarian course, say in Britain, Germany, the US or Australia, 'over-protective' librarians could be referred to it and it might soften attitudes. Basically they need a copyright law refresher.

[Carolus]

There have been several instances with libraries and librarians actually blacklisting me because I disclosed my intent to them beforehand.

I've run into the exact same thing Daphnis describes above. I cannot say how widespread the issue is in other countries, but there are a number of music librarians in the USA who are extremely negative about IMSLP. Of course, there are others (like Jim Farrington) who realize what this site is all about. I think publishers have done much to foster the idea that all music is protected by some sort of magic super-copyright among librarians, probably in reaction to rampant photocopying of music by students (often in violation of laws) in the past.

[Melodia]

This tends to be the source of the unfounded rancor against me when disclosing my intent, for instead of becoming familiar with their respective country's copyright laws, they view everything as under copyright and guard it very closely, sometimes to the point of interrogating a patron/customer before granting access to a particular item.

A bit off topic, but it reminds me of a post at Notalwaysright.com (I believe I posted it here in the Other Talk forum) where someone went into a Kinkos type place and wanted to copy something by Rimsky-Korsakov. The employee -- the one telling the story -- prevented it, saying how it was obviously in copyright (or something). While of course it MAY have been, I remember the implication was that because it was something published, it was obviously illegal to copy.

[Lyle Neff]

[...] The employee -- the one telling the story -- prevented it, saying how it was obviously in copyright (or something). While of course it MAY have been, I remember the implication was that because it was something published, it was obviously illegal to copy.

I don't know how old that employee was, but I wonder if s/he was of college age, because, if that's the current thinking about sources if they are printed, the sad irony is that far too many college students act as if anything on the web, including information, is "free" or doesn't need to be cited or to have quotation marks put around it when quoted.

[thalbergmad]

UK libraries do tend to have a rather strange attitude towards digitalisation of their holdings and all of the libraries i have dealt with contain some sort of declaration that use of copies provided are for private study only.

Saying that, obtaining copies from Cambridge University is remarkably cheap and easy and i have not had a problem with over 50 requests.

Telling them that you are part of a large digitalisation project is very honest, but at the same time a little silly if one is aware of their stance.

Thal

[scraigen]

Hello,

I am a music student at Cambridge, but am unfortunately at home so wouldn't be able to scan anything for you at this precise moment!

First question you need to answer...is it the University Library where these scores are held or the Pendelbury Library of Music? If it's the UL only 3rd year students can take out books from there. If it's the Pendelbury then any music student can.

I could go in there and may be able to borrow these scores (out of interest what are they?), or just photocopy them and then scan them/send them off to you.

Reply here or PM me if you want any further details.