Proposals, Ideas, Suggestions, etc

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Yagan Kiely
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Postby Yagan Kiely » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:42 am

Do links to PDFs still work?

They appear to.

viewtopic.php?t=190&start=15 the response letter still works, as does viewtopic.php?t=500

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Postby Sphemusator » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:43 pm

If it is possible to impose a block preventing downloading of specific scores to a given continent, surely this would be enough copyright protection to satisfy the law? (OK it will require a lot more work by site administration, but it would allow IMSLP to continue to operate).

In the meantime, is there a regular update on the development of the situation?

Thank you, everybody who is working so hard to resolve this situation.
Promoting the music of James Butt, f.i.a.l.
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And my own work
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Now open: Kittybriton's Muddlery
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Yagan Kiely
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Postby Yagan Kiely » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:58 pm

If it is possible to impose a block preventing downloading of specific scores to a given continent, surely this would be enough copyright protection to satisfy the law? (OK it will require a lot more work by site administration, but it would allow IMSLP to continue to operate).
There are ways, just not for Feld to do it on his own. I believe it most certainly would be enough to satisfy the law, as it was suggested by UE.

In the meantime, is there a regular update on the development of the situation?
Not thus far.

200th posts.

Yagan Kiely
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Postby Yagan Kiely » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:03 pm

Poulpe wrote:Dear Feldmahler

When as I used to do every morning I connected to the web to check what add been added in the night from Thursday to Friday, I felt as if a member of my family had died. Since that moment I could wear the same name as the first study for piano by Pierre-Octave Ferroud (which I expected impatiently to be added !!!) : Spleen. I've got the painful impression that goodness and altruism have been defeated by some medieval mentality... As someone else says in the forum, we can't let that happen !

I'm far to be a lawyer but maybe I got a few ideas : why don't you put a petition on the web, I'm sure we would be thousands to sign it... Another idea is effectively that IMSLP unfortunately stops to be a free project. I prefer to pay 5 euros/month that to see it disappear, and with that money you could pay for the copyrights ??? Perhaps it is pratically difficult to organize, I don't know...

In any case, I give you all my gratitude and support...!

Good luck



---------------------------------------------


Another idea is effectively that IMSLP unfortunately stops to be a free project. I prefer to pay 5 euros/month that to see it disappear, and with that money you could pay for the copyrights ??? Perhaps it is pratically difficult to organize, I don't know...
I think a more effective solution would be what Google does. The end user pays nothing while it is paid for by advertisers.[/quote]

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Postby Kalli » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:32 pm

I've got a new idea, but I don't know if it's realizable. The most effective way to control all scores in the future is, to publicize them after a check by the admin (or a helper). For example: if I would like to upload a new score, I put it in a special place, which only the admin (or a helper) can see. Other users can't see the new scores until the admin (or the helper) will put the score in the public domain. It's a lot of work, but this makes sure that nobody could publish a score of a composer like Luciano Berio (a score of Berio was published a few weeks ago :roll: ).

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Postby Funper » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:38 pm

Kalli wrote:I've got a new idea, but I don't know if it's realizable. The most effective way to control all scores in the future is, to publicize them after a check by the admin (or a helper). For example: if I would like to upload a new score, I put it in a special place, which only the admin (or a helper) can see. Other users can't see the new scores until the admin (or the helper) will put the score in the public domain. It's a lot of work, but this makes sure that nobody could publish a score of a composer like Luciano Berio (a score of Berio was published a few weeks ago :roll: ).


haha thanks for your suggestions Kalli and it was most realizable (we used such system) :wink:

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Postby Peter » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:44 pm

indeed. this checking system was propably the best improvement on IMSLP the last two years.
real copyright infringements didn't survive more than a couple of days. more dubious cases lasted sometimes a bit longer, but were ultimately also deleted or accepted.
it worked very well, but also showed our weakness: we didn't have enough manpower.

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Postby Yagan Kiely » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:52 pm

haha thanks for your suggestions Kalli and it was most realizable (we used such system)
It's not exactly the same, Kalli was suggesting that copyright reviewing be done before it is placed on the main page, which would take for too much effort for Feldmahler and friends to do. Which is why (as long as Feld stays as some sort of leader... be it spiritual at the very least) it will be beneficial for an organisation to take on IMSLP.

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Postby Funper » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:54 pm

speaking of feldmahler, were is he? could he atleast update us once in a while: what's progressing, what's happening with imslp, etc.

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Postby Yagan Kiely » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:57 pm

I'm sure he will get back to us as soon as he time, information (his psychology as well) allows.

The transferral of a website and deliberations of such events do take time.

I think we should all trust Feld and be patient with him. A well thought out job is better than a rushed job.

EDIT: Speak of the devil, he just came online!

Kalli
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Postby Kalli » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:33 pm

[quote="ArcticWind7"][quote]haha thanks for your suggestions Kalli and it was most realizable (we used such system)[/quote]It's not exactly the same, Kalli was suggesting that copyright reviewing be done before it is placed on the main page, which would take for too much effort for Feldmahler and friends to do. Which is why (as long as Feld stays as some sort of leader... be it spiritual at the very least) it will be beneficial for an organisation to take on IMSLP.[/quote]

Exact! That was my opinion. Reviewing BEFORE somebody else could see or download the score. The system IMSLP uses so far is problematic. If Feldmahler checks the new files not every day, the one or other user could download them without any problems. If my system will be used, the score won't be visible (and downloadalbe) until a person in charge has checked it. (Excuse my bad English. It's a long time ago, I wrote in English ...)

Yagan Kiely
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Postby Yagan Kiely » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:43 pm

Your English is perfectly fine, mine is probably worse right now due to the fact that I am writing a post every 1 or so and I am rushed. :P

What you have suggested could not have happend before the closure due to manpower, but it is a possibility if an organisation is contacted and agrees.

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Postby Trinitron » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:52 pm

Sphemusator wrote:If it is possible to impose a block preventing downloading of specific scores to a given continent, surely this would be enough copyright protection to satisfy the law? (OK it will require a lot more work by site administration, but it would allow IMSLP to continue to operate).


Yes I think it would. This whole situation is very similar to ones suffered recently by big bittorrent trackers, most notably Isohunt.com which had to block I.p addresses from the U.S from having access to it's "trackers" (basically the servers which organise the p2p sharing).
Basically they're in the process of beign taken to court by the MPAA, but have had enough publicity and donations to be able to hire legal aid. Apparently the MPAA doesn't have a firm case and it will most likly fall in favour of isohunt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IsoHunt

And anyway, although I'm not a lawyer, I'm sure we're all aware that there is no barrier to distributing work out of copywrite and in the public domain for the respective countries. But this is of no use unless we have a professional to defend islmp in court, send letter ect when challenged.

Excuse me if you feel I'm being rash but why was Fehldmayer paying for a website like this by himself in the first place? With a through put like "1,000,000 visitors a day 12,000 uniques a month, and 62,000 downloads a day" wilst not huge there are ways to make money. Adverstising is an obvious one, setting up a paypal account for donations and then advertising that is annother obvious suggestiong which is done by every project such as this I've seen, islmp could have it's own shop for printing and distributing sheetmusic. Why was none of this done?

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Postby pierre.chepelov » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:29 pm

Hello everybody,

First at all, as I didn't yet, let me say all my thanks, admiration, and support to Feldmahler and all IMSLP contributors.

- People say that the new IMSLP should respect the life+70 rule, because of EU lobbyists. But there are countries, even inside the EU, that have longer copyright term than the general +70 term. For example: France, where many composers and/or works have a life+almost85years term (and, in few cases, it's up to life+115 years!). Maybe, somewhere in the world, some country will decide to have a life+150 year copyright term - why not? I don't think IMSLP should have any other law than it's country's law.

- I don't think that asking IMSLP to do IP filtering is fair. Each user is responsible for what he up- or downloads. (In France, the law says: "Nobody shall ignore the law".) And IMSLP was clearly saying to the users to respect their countries' laws. Others don't: do UE sue those Northern American booksellers, who send, without any problem, any (in the EU) illegal Dover reprints – Bartók, Schönberg... – to any European customer? (I know, IMSLP is a weaker prey.)

- But, with or without IP filtering, I think IMSLP will have to make efforts to make available the more precise copyright information possible, taking account of each national situation, and not only of Canada, US, and general EU ones. (I already did post something about that – see viewtopic.php?t=494) – This means that there will be a need of national copyright rewiewers for each country, at least of the Western world.

Of course I'll be volunteering for it.
I can't wait to see again the complete Bach-Gesellschaft edition!

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Some interesting links on the case

Postby Klausgraf » Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:25 pm

Position of Professor Geist, Canadian IP expert:

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2308/125/

See also there the comment of Soufron (lawyer engaged in Wikipedia).

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commo ... IMLSP_case

Please note that you can upload scores which are pre-1923 and the author is dead 70 years at Wikimedia Commons!

http://archiv.twoday.net/stories/4367541 (in German)

Claiming copyrights for composers like Mahler who died 1911 is clearly Copyfraud. In Germany an enterprise can sue each other enterprise which is falsely claiming a copyright in scores. A Munich court decision has been quoted at
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsschu ... tenbildern


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