Proposals, Ideas, Suggestions, etc

Archived threads.

Moderators: kcleung, Wiki Admins

mr_roberts_z
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:03 am

Postby mr_roberts_z » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:09 pm

Once again, I encourage Feldmahler to fight this.

Perhaps the site can be revived, temporarily with obeying UE's requests? I know there are a huge amount of composers to go through, but with a few people working on filtering out the copyrighted ones, it shouldn't take very long.

This way, perhaps people can still enjoy PD scores and the rest of the site while the UE situation continues. If word of this situation goes around, new people can come to the site and see why it would be it would be worth it to support it. Of course, with a large chunk of composers gone, the server load might be a little lighter, possibly giving Feldmahler some relief.

Even if the battle with UE isn't successful for IMSLP, perhaps the site can still stay up, with the modifications. I don't completely remember, but I'm sure most of the composers on it were out of copyright anyway, so it wouldn't be absolutely horrible; 0.8 IMSLPs are better than none.

Blouis79
regular poster
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:07 pm

Postby Blouis79 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:56 pm

mr_roberts_z wrote:Once again, I encourage Feldmahler to fight this.

Perhaps the site can be revived, temporarily with obeying UE's requests? I know there are a huge amount of composers to go through, but with a few people working on filtering out the copyrighted ones, it shouldn't take very long.

This way, perhaps people can still enjoy PD scores and the rest of the site while the UE situation continues. If word of this situation goes around, new people can come to the site and see why it would be it would be worth it to support it. Of course, with a large chunk of composers gone, the server load might be a little lighter, possibly giving Feldmahler some relief.

Even if the battle with UE isn't successful for IMSLP, perhaps the site can still stay up, with the modifications. I don't completely remember, but I'm sure most of the composers on it were out of copyright anyway, so it wouldn't be absolutely horrible; 0.8 IMSLPs are better than none.



I agree. The number of offending composers is small - 1 definite, 5 death+70 where UE claims may be specific to a particular print edition with a younger arrangment???, and 5 in the death+50-70 grey zone where it is legal in Canada and non-EU countries. There is still debate on which exactly are copyright where.

If people really still want to publish the 5 in the grey zone, I think a legal disclaimer about copyright being death+70 in europe would keep IMSLP out of hot water while the lawyers continue arguing.

A letter to UE asking them to substantiate their specific claim on composers dead more than 70 years would be useful.

There is no battle if UE conditions are met. The IP filter suggestion is not used widely elsewhere - most web sites make users click a box to determine their age, with no burden of proof. Click a box to say you are not from EU.

http://imslpforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=615&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

Blouis79
regular poster
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:07 pm

Re: Some interesting links on the case

Postby Blouis79 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:04 pm

Klausgraf wrote:[...]
Claiming copyrights for composers like Mahler who died 1911 is clearly Copyfraud. In Germany an enterprise can sue each other enterprise which is falsely claiming a copyright in scores. A Munich court decision has been quoted at
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsschu ... tenbildern


I suspect it unlikely that UE lawyers would bother with copyfraud. It is more likely they have a claim for some reason - eg copyright in an arrangement made by someone who died later or is still alive. Asking them or viewing the scores in question would clarify this.

WJM
regular poster
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:46 pm

Postby WJM » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:12 pm

Blouis79 wrote:I agree. The number of offending composers is small - 1 definite, 5 death+70 where UE claims may be specific to a particular print edition with a younger arrangment???, and 5 in the death+50-70 grey zone where it is legal in Canada and non-EU countries. There is still debate on which exactly are copyright where.


The life+50 term is the term in the largest cohort of countries of the world (nearly 100), representing a majority of the world's population.

The life+70 universe is about 55 or 56 countries.

samcinty
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:42 pm

technical assistance?

Postby samcinty » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:19 am

I'm a long-time IMSLP lurker and hoped to have time to assist the project in some way for a while now. The recent events with UE are terrible and my thanks go out to Feldmahler for keeping it going for so long and putting so much work into the site, along with the other contributors and admins. I just recently bought a piano, and IMSLP helped me find some old pieces that I used to know and for that I am very grateful. I am sad that it is down now, even if the chances that it will be back up look good. It was (and hopefully will continue to be) truly a hugely beneficial resource. For any studying musician who is not fortunate enough to have access to a good university or conservatory music library, I would imagine that it would be literally irreplaceable.

I just happen to have some time now, having just finished up a large PHP project with work, and would be able to help out if any technical assistance is needed, though I suspect that if a school or similar organization takes over, they will probably bring with them some technical resources. But, please send me a personal mail via the forum if there is any pressing need for technical assistance, be it PHP coding, web server maintenance or the like.

Odin
active poster
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:00 am
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Sweden

it needs to be replaced

Postby Odin » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:29 am

Hello

WJM wrote:
Blouis79 wrote:I agree. The number of offending composers is small - 1 definite, 5 death+70 where UE claims may be specific to a particular print edition with a younger arrangment???, and 5 in the death+50-70 grey zone where it is legal in Canada and non-EU countries. There is still debate on which exactly are copyright where.


The life+50 term is the term in the largest cohort of countries of the world (nearly 100), representing a majority of the world's population.

The life+70 universe is about 55 or 56 countries.


And the only agreeable term for the future is "lifetime+0".

Sincerely
Odin

Yagan Kiely
Site Admin
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:16 am
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Postby Yagan Kiely » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:44 am

[q]And the only agreeable term for the future is "lifetime+0".

Sincerely[/q]While I think a majority of people agree with this, we are not going to change anything with regard to IMSLP and I believe it is more important to focus on the issue with IMSLP not with copyright law in every country.

Odin
active poster
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:00 am
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Sweden

Yes, but ...

Postby Odin » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:53 am

Hello

ArcticWind7 wrote:[q]And the only agreeable term for the future is "lifetime+0".

Sincerely[/q]While I think a majority of people agree with this, we are not going to change anything with regard to IMSLP and I believe it is more important to focus on the issue with IMSLP not with copyright law in every country.


Sure - we can not change the legislations right now. But it is important for publishers like UE to learn that they soon will have to deal with democratic political movements which intend to do so in the future.

My suggestion was to hand over the IMSLP project to such a movement in order to let the publishers understand that they will have to deal with a strong counterpart who want´s to rip up parts of the legislation which they claim.

Probably publishers would think at least twice, perhaps three times before they would start a blackmailing-and-bullying-campaign against a strong political opponent.

Sincerely
Odin

Vivaldi
active poster
Posts: 407
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:54 pm
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Malaysia

Postby Vivaldi » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:59 am

Agreed. Get IMSLP back on track and then worry about the copyright laws later.

Odin
active poster
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:00 am
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Sweden

But who can do it ?

Postby Odin » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:24 am

Hello

Vivaldi wrote:Agreed. Get IMSLP back on track and then worry about the copyright laws later.


The IMSLP project belongs so far to Mr. Feldmahler and to his co-administrators. They - and nobody else - can make the decision when and how the IMSLP library can return and get "back on track". They are the only ones who can decide whether they like to hand it over to another supervisor, let it be the Swedish Pirate Party or anyone else. We are allowed to have opinions, to encourage and to suggest possible ways out of the misery, but we have to respect and to wait for their decisions.

We can only hope that they will make a decision which soon will give IMSLP back to the user´s and contributor´s community in one or another way.

The UE representatives should pull the underlip over the head and swallow ...... or apologize and call their canadian watchdogs back.

Sincerely
Odin

DannyL

Postby DannyL » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:43 pm

VERY VERY SAD DAY, we must do everything to make this website happen, it was brilliant

Yagan Kiely
Site Admin
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:16 am
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Postby Yagan Kiely » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:55 pm

My suggestion was to hand over the IMSLP project to such a movement in order to let the publishers understand that they will have to deal with a strong counterpart who want´s to rip up parts of the legislation which they claim.
Your suggestion is valid, but limiting, as a majority of the world has life + 50, being held in Europe would be unfair to most countries.

Odin
active poster
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:00 am
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Sweden

My suggestion was not very popular here

Postby Odin » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:12 pm

Hello

ArcticWind7 wrote:
My suggestion was to hand over the IMSLP project to such a movement in order to let the publishers understand that they will have to deal with a strong counterpart who want´s to rip up parts of the legislation which they claim.
Your suggestion is valid, but limiting, as a majority of the world has life + 50, being held in Europe would be unfair to most countries.


Maybe you are right - several writers here dislike the Pirate movement as such, and even more dislike that a political movement might run the library.

The pirate movement could do something else which no other part can do:

- On the one track to run the IMSLP project according to the legislation which unfortunately is still in operation today

- On the other track to do political work for a substantial change of the copyright legislation itself

Therefore I believed that the IMSLP would be in good hands if Mr. Feldmahler and his friends decided to hand it over to this movement.

Now I learnt that they probably will not decide in this direction, and I have to accept this like anyone else. I guess that they will try another solution without the benefit of a strong counterpart which rather soon might "outnumber" the publishers´organisations.

My hope is that Mr. Feldmahler and the other administrator will find a solution to their - and our - problem quite soon so that the public community (we) can get back the free access to the scores.

In my collection there are some scores which I would like to contribute if I could learn how to do with the scanner. One of them is a print of three piano sonatas by Jan Ladislav Dusik, the print being originated from 1816 !

Sincerely
Odin

Yagan Kiely
Site Admin
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:16 am
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

Postby Yagan Kiely » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:34 pm

I don;t dislike it or anything, just the 70 + rule. :wink:

AW7 :)

Odin
active poster
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:00 am
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Sweden

????????

Postby Odin » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:48 pm

Hello Arctic Wind

By the way: couild you explain your chioice of nick
to somebody living in Sweden and feeling the cold
arctic wind in reality ?

ArcticWind7 wrote:I don;t dislike it or anything, just the 70 + rule. :wink:

AW7 :)


I can´t understand this message. Do you like or dislike the
"lifetime+70"-rule ?

I dislike this rule, and the Pirate movements dislikes this rule.

My opinion is to replace it by a "lifetime+0"-rule. The pirate
movement wants to proceed much further ..... towards a new
rule "date of publishing + 5 years", which I cannot agree with.
This is one of few reasons why I still am not a party member.

Sincerely
Odin


Return to “Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests