Klughardt, August - Wind Quintet

tilmaen · Post by **tilmaen** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:00 am

i have an update on the Klughardt quintet:
http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/2147460?&lang=en
says that there was a print by zimmermann in 1902
however,
http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/254726012/ ... ue&lang=en
shows that there supposedly is a new "edition" in 2000, and one from 2000 that says "nachdruck" which means reprint.
does anybody have an idea how to find out whether this is a reprint of the old edition? worst case szernario: call the publisher and ask, but that - and here jfarrington and I probably agree - would be really rude.

tilmaen · Post by **tilmaen** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:05 am

ah, i almost forgot this:
i have a couple of scores and clarinet parts that could be of interest for IMSLP. however i need your advice (again!) regarding the copyrights:
1.) some of them don't have a copyright notice at all - does that mean that one can upload them here as long as the composer is dead for more than 70 years? (EU)
2.) Some have slurs, extra dynamics and sometimes cadenzas added by famous german clarinet players (Jost Michaels for example). while a Stamiz conzerto for example is out of copyright and public domain, how long would Michael's Cadenza be copyrighted?
3.) even though some of the scores i have are most definately public domain they still bear that little "don't copy or we'll sue you to death"-notice. that notice is of no importance and in the case of public domain works - bogus, isn't it?

thanks again!
tilman

Post by **Carolus** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:14 am

The addition of dynamics and slurs by an editor - not transferred from another public domain source - move an edition from being in the urtext category into the interpretative category, whose term is 50pma in Canada, 70pms in the EU. Cadenzas are just like original compositions - protected for 50 pma (70pma).

There are numerous examples of bogus copyright claims, but sometimes things can get tricky. International Music in the USA, for example, sometimes will reprint an old PD score but add editorial slurs, articulations and dynamics. Such editions are protected.

It's impossible to tell for sure about the 2006 Klughardt listing on WorldCat. It's possible that Zimmermann put out a new edition, completely re-engraved, etc. Such an edition would not be allowed here, obviously. Reprints are another matter, however.

tilmaen · Post by **tilmaen** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:17 pm

Carolus wrote: It's impossible to tell for sure about the 2006 Klughardt listing on WorldCat. It's possible that Zimmermann put out a new edition, completely re-engraved, etc. Such an edition would not be allowed here, obviously. Reprints are another matter, however.

well, mine is a "nachdruck" from 2000 not 2006 - however, i know just as little about the 2000 edition compared to the urtext as i know about the 2006, so for now i'll keep the scans on my harddrive for personal use (private copies are still allowed, i guess). i'll check in the bavarian state library next time i'm in munich and compare the original to my reprint. if there are no changes in slurs and articulations etc. i'll upload the files.

Post by **Carolus** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:04 pm

tilmaen, You are perfectly free to post the nachdruck (reprint) of the 1902 edition here. It is not illegal even in Germany. The Alfred reprint of the 1902 score is sold worldwide. As for the ethical considerations - would such a posting harm the sales of Peters - I think we addressed that by pointing out that their sales will very possibly increase.

Reprints of public domain works are not protectable as new copyrights. The only thing in a reprint that cannot be reproduced is a still-in-use logo or trademark.

tilmaen · Post by **tilmaen** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:15 pm

alright, i'll post it. the fact that it doesn't have a copyright notice kind of assures me that this is a reprint from 1902. i don't know for sure though - as i said this is a nachdruck from 2000 (zimmermann) and it doesn't say when the original was published.
anyways: feel free to review the file and if it's not ok, let me know so we can take it off.
I removed the german "do not copy" label that says "Fotokopieren grundsätzlich nicht erlaubt" which means "Copying categorically not permitted" as well as a line that says "copying our editions is not permitted and will be prosecuted"
to summarize: scary lines with no importance....

for quicker access: here's the link
http://imslp.org/wiki/Quintet_for_Winds ... ch_Martin)

Post by **Carolus** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:25 pm

to summarize: scary lines with no importance....

That's why they are known in English as "scarecrows."

Lyle Neff · Post by **Lyle Neff** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:17 pm

Returning to the concern brought up earlier in this thread about a publisher's printing a reprint and then an IMSLP user's uploading a scan of that reprint -- there's nothing to stop the reverse from happening: IMSLP has a PD score, and a music publisher decides that the scan quality is good enough (at least with regard to dpi) do download it, re-edit, print, and sell.

Post by **Carolus** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:33 am

I'm fairly sure that it's already happened at least once. I personally know of a case where an Enescu score we have available was used as source material for a new edition (re-engraved) by a fairly well-known publisher.