Концерт

Any posts related to the categorization and standardization of IMSLP

Moderators: vinteuil, Davydov

pierre.chepelov
active poster
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:06 pm
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Концерт

Postby pierre.chepelov » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:14 pm

I'm about to submit some kontserty by Bortniansky, and I have a few questions:

(i) I have seen that the Russian "kontsert" is categorized under "concertos". This sounds odd to me: I can agree that the kontsert has something in common with the (17th c. German Geistliches) Konzert, but it shares virtually nothing with any type of (instrumental) concerto, either baroque or classical/romantic. In fact, the kontsert is, in Western words, closer to a motet.
Is it possible to implement a new tag, that could be "kontserty" (or "kontserts"?!), or "sacred concertos" (or "sacred concerts"?), and would it be an independent category, or within "concertos"?
(BTW, I see that Schütz's Geistliche Konzerte remains untagged... maybe the issue is similar.)

(ii) There is currently 1 kontsert by Bortniansky here, and its work page name is the translation of its incipit. I think a transliteration would be better − or, maybe even better, "Kontsert No..." or "Sacred Concerto No..."

And: there are dozens of theses kontserts, waiting on Russian sites to find their way here.

Davydov
Copyright Reviewer
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:31 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Contact:

Re: Концерт

Postby Davydov » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:09 pm

Hi Pierre. "Концерт" is the direct Russian equivalent of "Concerto", and Bortniansky's works are catalogued as concertos by the Library of Congress (and the rest of the English-speaking world). The LC use transliterated versions of the incipits as titles, but it might be more convenient for us to us the concerto numbers which date from after Bortniansky's death.

The composer's designation always takes precedence in our tagging system (however incongruous it might seem), but we could introduce a "Sacred Concertos" tag which would show up in "Religious works" as well as "Concertos".

pierre.chepelov
active poster
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:06 pm
notabot: YES
notabot2: Bot
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Концерт

Postby pierre.chepelov » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:59 pm

Hi Davydov.
Davydov wrote:The composer's designation always takes precedence in our tagging system (however incongruous it might seem), but we could introduce a "Sacred Concertos" tag which would show up in "Religious works" as well as "Concertos".

Thanks for your explanations! Well, the "Sacred Concertos" solution sounds fine.

For Bortniansky, there are 35 four-voice sacred concertos, and 10 8-voice ones. (And I have those 10 in 1 file).
What is more convenient/legal: upload each one in one page
*Sacred Concerto for four-voice choir No.1
...
*Sacred Concerto for eight-voice choir No.1
...
or to keep one page for each serie?
(Cherubic Hymns could be dealt the same way)

Davydov
Copyright Reviewer
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:31 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Contact:

Re: Концерт

Postby Davydov » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:41 pm

For the page titles, I'd recommend the form "Concerto No.1 for 4 Voices", and "Concerto No.1 for 8 Voices". The categorization system will tag them as 'sacred concertos' and as works for chorus, so that information can be omitted from the title. (The Library of Congress uniform titles actually use the "4 voices" and "8 voices" descriptors, rather than "chorus", as this is how they were described when the works were originally published).

On Bortniansky''s category page this does mean we'll end up with this sequence:

* Concerto No.1 for 4 Voices
* Concerto No.1 for 8 Voices
* Concerto No.2 for 4 Voices
* Concerto No.2 for 8 Voices (etc.)

... but I think this is more easily readable than the nearest alternative:

* Concerto for 4 Voices No.1
* Concerto for 4 Voices No.2
* Concerto for 8 Voices No.1
* Concerto for 8 Voices No.2 (etc.)

... and after "Concerto No.10" they will all be for 4 voices anyway. What do you think?

steltz
active poster
Posts: 1852
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:30 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Концерт

Postby steltz » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:49 am

I'm bringing this forward, because I have run across some Geistliche Concerte/Konzerte, and I don't see the "sacred concertos" tag in the list. Was this ever done, and should I be using it? Thanks.
bsteltz

Davydov
Copyright Reviewer
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:31 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Contact:

Re: Концерт

Postby Davydov » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:06 pm

It's done now, and you can use it :-)


Return to “Categorization / Standardization”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest