tagging arrangements that don't come from a single source

Any posts related to the categorization and standardization of IMSLP

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steltz
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tagging arrangements that don't come from a single source

Postby steltz » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:20 pm

This page refers:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Aria_and_Presto_% ... Jacques%29

It isn't tagged yet, but the two movements are taken from different sonatas, so it needs to stay on its own page. I've found the one, but not the other. They are probably both from violin sonatas, which at least makes the instrumentation the same.

By the way, the source of the first movement is the 4th book of Jacques Aubert's violin sonatas. I would upload it, but don't have the means of removing BNF's cover pages, which I assume needs to happen before uploading. If anyone is interested, we have only the 3rd book at IMSLP, and I think all 4 are now available at BNF.
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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby Davydov » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:37 pm

Hmm, judging from the cover these seem to be separate arrangements that were bundled together in the same edition, so there's no reason why they shouldn't be split and placed in the arrangements section of their individual work pages (if the second can be identified).

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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby steltz » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:02 pm

I've gone through all 4 books of Aubert's violin sonatas, and haven't found it, unless I just missed it from being tired, but I don't think so, and at the moment, I have 5 of the 6 sets of Aubert's Suites that are larger works for multiple instruments, but I don't think they will be from there, though I will check just to be sure.. Looks like it might be a long wait . . .
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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby Notenschreiber » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:16 pm

This "Presto" is the same as the one here:

Largo/Presto

composer: Jacques Aubert - Antonio Vivaldi
revised by: Marcel Lejeune

Instrumentation: violin and piano
Publisher: Schott Music
Series: Collection Marcel Lejeune - No. 5
8 Pages - Saddle stitching
ISMN: 979-0-54350-121-8
Order number: SF 8719

The Largo is by Vivaldi, the Presto by Aubert, but the precise sources are not given.

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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby steltz » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:53 am

Thanks, Notenschreiber! I also have a Gigue by Aubert that Magnani transcribed for clarinet, and I still need to find the source for that one too. Looks like I'm going to become very familiar with Aubert's works! :lol:
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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby Notenschreiber » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:40 am

I finally succeeded in finding the source of the Presto: It´s sonata 1 of Livre V, 6th movement.

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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby steltz » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:24 am

Thank you! :D (Where did you find Livre V?)
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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby Notenschreiber » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:02 am

I found it at BNF. The movements of the first sonata are Andante, Allegro man non troppo, Gavotte 1, Gavotte 2, Presto.
So our Presto is the 5th (not 6th) and last movement of the sonata. I think, i will upload some Aubert´s to IMSLP.

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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby steltz » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:09 pm

I have a question about the Gavotte 1 and 2. Would they have been performed as a single movement, with a Da Capo back to Gavotte 1 after Gavotte 2? The reason I ask is that this is how Rosanov structured the arias from Sonata 1 in Book 4, and I just assumed he did a written out version of what would have been performed originally anyway. As a side issue, it also makes a different to the movement numbering.
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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby Notenschreiber » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:21 pm

In the original edition of Book 4 it seems to me, that Aria and Aria 2 are two movements, without repitition of Aria after Aria 2.
Both have the same structure with a "fine" remark after the first part. On the other hand there are a lot examples with, say Menuet 1 and Menuet 2,
where Menuet 2 is treated like the Trio in one Menuet. But in most cases this is clearly indicated, what is not the case in the Aubert compositions.
Last edited by Notenschreiber on Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby steltz » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:59 pm

Then the arrangement has been done rather "liberally" . . .
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Re: tagging arrangements that don't come from a single sourc

Postby Notenschreiber » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:41 pm

In Book 4 sonata 9 it is clear from the musical context, that aria 1 has to be repeated after aria 2, perhaps just to the "fine".
So i asked an expert and he is thinking, that in every case aria 1, aria 2 or gavotte 1, gavotte 2 etc, should be carried out in that way.
The music should not be to short! In modern editions of course one would give instructions how to proceed.


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