Radetsky March

Any posts related to the categorization and standardization of IMSLP

Moderators: vinteuil, Davydov

steltz
active poster
Posts: 1852
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:30 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Radetsky March

Postby steltz » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

This page:

http://imslp.org/wiki/R%C3%A1k%C3%B3czi_indul%C3%B3_(Allaga,_G%C3%A9za)

turns out to be the Radetsky March, arranged by Allaga. Strauss Sr. is not credited, although the music makes it clear that Allaga arranged it. It is not a paraphrase with added stuff thrown in, it is Strauss's march with its original trio, arranged for string quartet.

Surely this should be put as an arrangement on Strauss's page?

A similar issue holds with another quartet from this collection -- [url]http://imslp.org/wiki/Batth%C3%A1ny_indul%C3%B3_(Allaga,_G%C3%A9za)[url]. Although we don't have a work page for that specific piece, we do have a page for the composer, [url]http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:M%C3%BCller,_J%C3%B3zsef[/url].

The page should be under Müller's name, with Allaga as the arranger? This one isn't so well known, but it looks like a straight arrangement.
bsteltz

Carolus
Site Admin
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:18 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Contact:

Re: Radetsky March

Postby Carolus » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:15 am

If it's just an arrangement of the Strauss, absolutely. Strauss apparently used a popular or folk-tune for his own piece, but it's been very popular and well-known since it was published.

Melodia
active poster
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:30 pm

Re: Radetsky March

Postby Melodia » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:15 am

Uh....

That looks like the /Rákóczi/ March https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A1k%C3%B3czi_March
Strauss Sr. AFAIK didn't have anything to do with it, but both Berlioz and Liszt (the later quite a number of times) made their own versions.

steltz
active poster
Posts: 1852
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:30 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Radetsky March

Postby steltz » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:38 am

I've looked at the music, and it is the Strauss notes that I remember from many pops concert. I'm sure it's the Strauss.
bsteltz

Melodia
active poster
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:30 pm

Re: Radetsky March

Postby Melodia » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:37 pm

Well you're remembering wrong. Srauss's march is this: http://imslp.org/wiki/File:TN-Strauss,_ ... 10,996.jpg
Very different music.

steltz
active poster
Posts: 1852
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:30 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Radetsky March

Postby steltz » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:28 am

Sorry, you're right, it's not Strauss, it's Berlioz! But one of the editions has a note saying the march itself is of "ancient origin, and the composer is unknown". So it should really be under anonymous, arr. Allaga.

Thanks Melodia, for making me look again . . .
bsteltz

Melodia
active poster
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:30 pm

Re: Radetsky March

Postby Melodia » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:00 am

Right, Berlioz simply made an arrangement of existing music (as did Liszt quite a few times, as mentioned).

Carolus
Site Admin
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:18 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Contact:

Re: Radetsky March

Postby Carolus » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:26 pm

If Allaga's is based in Berlioz's setting (as is at least one of Liszt's as I recall), it should go under the Berlioz - which should still be under Berlioz's category, even if we need to add the tag |Page Type=Arrangement to throw under the "Arrangements by" (Berlioz) tab.

steltz
active poster
Posts: 1852
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:30 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Radetsky March

Postby steltz » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:51 pm

From what I've read, it seems to have been generally known and popular before Berlioz, which would mean that any Hungarian, Allaga included, would have known it apart from the Berlioz version. That was my take on what I read, but others may disagree on it. In the meantime, I've linked Berlioz' Damnation of Faust page to it and put a comment on it. But I think it's been deleted, I can't find it.
bsteltz

Carolus
Site Admin
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:18 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Contact:

Re: Radetsky March

Postby Carolus » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:45 am

Yes, I'm fairly certain you're correct about the anonymous nature of the tune itself. Nevertheless Berlioz's setting from La damnation de Faust is a very specific and extremely well-known setting - itself re-arranged by numerous other composers, which appears to be what Allaga has arranged for string quartet. It's even in the same key as the Berlioz (A minor), with the same trio section (in A major). That's why I moved it to the page for the Berlioz. If Allaga had really done his own setting of the tune, with a different harmonization, a different structure, etc., it should go under Allaga's category as an arrangement. I don't think it rates this at all though. It's just the popular march transcribed for quartet.


Return to “Categorization / Standardization”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests