Vivian Fine The Women in the Garden genre categories

[rhymesandchymes]

Orchestra doesn't seem appropriate. It's a nine-instrument combo. What about substituting chamber ensemble for the 3 orchestra entries?

Also, can you add chamber opera as a category?

Thanks

[daphnis]

Peggy, we have a tag for a nonet, which I've just added. Someone else will have to pipe up about adding chamber opera as a category.

[steltz]

The library tagging system in use almost universally, that IMSLP's system is based on, requires tagging according to title or subtitle. Nonet is not in the title or subtitle, so unfortunately, that isn't appropriate. In addition, only the accompaniment would be 9 players, and there is a total of 14 performers here. It shouldn't be coming up on a list of pieces that can be performed by 9 players.

I have re-tagged it for individual instruments, but this will take a while to come through the system, since new instrumentation categories have to be manually put into the system the first time they are used. Until then, it will show as "Unknown tag".

We have discussed other opera categories, and have added a few in the last year or so, so I will bring the "chamber opera" suggestion up with Davydov, who is the leader of the tagging team.

Incidentally, we have a forum for "Categorization/Standardization" so I will wait a few days so everyone sees this, and then I will move this topic over there.

[steltz]

I have now spoken with Davydov about the chamber opera genre. The problem with it is defining it, since it isn't a universally accepted term -- the libraries still don't use it. It wouldn't really be appropriate to use just the size of the orchestra as a deciding factor, since many Baroque orchestras only had one person on a part, more due to the size/importance/economic standing of the court they served than the desires of the composers. Many of these operas can be, and are today, performed with what we consider to be a more normal orchestra, and these have far more strings per part than even Mozart was used to.

It might be a good compromise to leave it as "operas", but with the new tag for individual instruments, people can see that it isn't for the same type of orchestra as the grand operas. The chamber quality of The Women in the Garden is apparent from the instrumentation.

Anyone else want to weigh in?

[rhymesandchymes]

Steltz and Daphnis, thanks for your help here.

Just to be clear, I do NOT want to delete the Opera genre, that should definitely be kept as is, but was suggesting adding Chamber Opera. If that's problematic just keep Opera--not a big deal.

The focus of my original query was on the"Orchestra" genre and how that seemed inappropriate. I suggested substituting "chamber ensemble" for orchestra. What do you think of that?

[rhymesandchymes]

Looks good! No need to add tags for all the different instruments, I don't think.

But--how about tags for the singers: soprano, mezzo-soprano, contralto, and tenor?

thanks again:)

[steltz]

We did have a system of tags as you suggest, but because (partly) the Werner Icking project was putting through, literally, thousands of new works, a lot of which needed new tags that have to be manually added the first time they are used, this system was suspended until such time as there aren't so many new works coming in per day. In the meantime, "vv", meaning multiple voices, will be used to ensure that all works show up in search lists immediately without having to wait indefinitely for more specific tags to be recognized by the system.

We will eventually get back to inserting specific voice types, at which point, this opera will be done as well.

[rhymesandchymes]

OK, Thanks for letting me know.

I'm sorry to say this after you've gone to the trouble of adding them, but I really don't feel putting in genres for the individual instruments is appropriate. The work doesn't feature these instruments, nor are they soloists--they are just part of an instrumental combo accompanying the singers. So if it's not too much trouble please delete all the following genre tags:

Scores featuring the flute; Scores featuring the clarinet; Scores featuring the bassoon; Scores featuring percussion soloists; Scores featuring the viola; Scores featuring the cello; Scores featuring the double bass; Scores featuring the piano; For voices with solo instruments;

Thanks very much!

[Davydov]

If the accompaniment isn't for the standard orchestra then our tagging system intentionally lists each instrument as a solo part, so on that basis the work has been tagged correctly. The alternative would be to replace the individual instruments with the collective "For orchestra", which doesn't seem appropriate here because there's no traditional string section, for example.

[rhymesandchymes]

OK, thanks for explaining how it works.

[rhymesandchymes]

One final note--I do hope that you decide to add chamber opera as a category. Chamber opera signals both a smaller ensemble and a shorter work, and many small opera companies are looking for such works, which can be produced with less resources.