Starting a forum on how to get better virtual performances of classical pieces on IMSLP. A place to discuss sample libraries and techniques to use them effectively in creating more realistic Synthesized/Virtual sound files, especially in relation to traditional classical instrumentation.
If you are using Finale, Sibelius, Notion or some other notation program, you have a means to generate a sampled performance from the built in libraries in those programs, and you likely do, but they also can load VST sample libraries (many of which are Kontakt compatible) and play them with or instead of the built in libraries. If you are simply posting MIDI files to give people an idea of how a piece sounds, perhaps its time to start investigating how to create acceptable virtual performances instead.
Note that many sample libraries cater to writing big cinematic sound with lots of special effects, big percussion hits, sampled loops/grooves, ethnic content, and tons of post processing including huge reverb, surround, distortion, etc. I think this treatment should be its own forum as things will get too unmanageable if we start adding production music for movies, TV, games and even popular music into the discussion (a big customer base for sample libraries).
Let's start by listing some of the major orchestral-based sample libraries. Some are inexpensive (like Garritan and Miroslav Philharmonik) in the < $200 range. Most of the good ones run $500-$1000 per library, so be prepared to pay 2-3 thousand dollars for a "top of the line" 24-bit full orchestral sample set that includes multiple microphone positions (essential for getting a better sound). But price aside, the goal is to get the best sound out of the sample set that you have.
General Orchestral Libraries (either full orchestra or orchestral sections)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Big Fish Audio (mostly instrumental sections & solo instruments among many others)
2. East West / Quantum Leap (big set of orchestral sounds, piano, chorus, ethnic and more)
3. Garritan - (also Marching Band, Jazz Band). Finale & Sibelius use Garritan samples.
4. IK Multimedia Miroslav Philharmonik (Orchestral)
5. LA Scoring Strings (Strings with multiple chairs and sordino)
6. Native Instruments (NI) - Kontakt Sampler with many samples - used by many other libraries
7. Project SAM - Symphobia, True Strike (Percussion) and others (geared to Cinematic)
8. SoniVox - Symphonic collection and many others
9. UVI IRCAM Solo Instruments and others
10. Vienna Symphonic Library (VSL) - Full range or Symphonic and Solo Instruments
Then there are many other specialized libraries used by classical composers, some listed below. We can talk about these too. There are so many sample libraries here, its best ot just search online.
Other classical related libraries (there are many others):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Piano: Synthogy Ivory, East/West Pianos, NI Pianos, VSL Piano, etc
2. Organ: Sonokinetic Toccata, Hauptwerke, VSL Konzerthaus organ, PrecisionSound Knutby
3. Harpsichord: Precisionsound Blanchet Cembalo, Sonivox Harpsichord
4. Voice/Chorus: Cinesamples Voxus, East/West Symphonic Choirs
5. Percussion: NI Battery, East West Stormdrum, Project SAM True Strike, many others.
6. Medieval/Renaissance Instruments: ERA Legends
(I'm working on a more complete list that I will post, but these libraries change often).
Finally, another way to go (especially for smaller pieces) is to use MIDI hardware synthesizers running orchestral sample sets either alone or in combination with the sample libraries. A great variety of options exist here from Korg (M3/Triton), Yamaha (Motif), Kurzweil (PC3), Roland (Jupiter80), and others, some of which are full Digital Audio Workstations (DAWs) in their own right or DAWs can play them like a sample library. I will post a number of these as well to get a feel for the difference in sound. Typically synthesizers don't sound as true to the real instruments as sample libraries as they do not have the memory to store huge sample sets, but they can be better played in real time and sound more human as many have interfaces to use ribbon controllers, breath controllers and even infrared hand controllers to add expression to the mix. (For sure a great way to make any sampled performance sound more "human" is to play some of the lines or mix in a real instrument here and there). But our initial goal in the forum is to see how good we can get a totally computer generated performance to be.
What is the difference in sound between the sample libraries? What makes one sample library better or easier to use? What applications are best for them? Are there techniques that an be used to get a better orchestral sound but perhaps you need to change the music a bit from what it would be if played by a real orchestra? What about after I generate a sound file? The level is too low. It's noisy. What processing I can apply to make things sound better? We want to discuss that too.
I'll be posting examples of a lot of these to which I have access to try and determine which are the easiest to use giving the best sound for classical music. Note that I have a lot to learn myself here. Hopefully we can all learn from each other.
Ultimately in a few years, I believe classical virtual performances will be treated just like any other performance (they are today in film, TV, game and a wide range of pop music). The bottom line is that to get a good sound it takes time, money and learned skills that are somewhat different than those used to simply play or compose music.
So what do we need once we have a sample library or two?
1. A fast 64-bit computer with lots of RAM (at least 8GB, 16GB is better). You can't do much with 32 bits except run a piano or a couple of instruments with the big sample libraries. Note than many composers chain two or more computers together to increase voices, but our goal is to see what we can do with one computer.
2. A notation program like Sibelius, Finale, Notion, Scoreperfect, etc, ideally with a Sound Set that supports an imported sample library so you can control the samples from the notation program. Also can be used to create a MIDI file to import into a DAW for loading more samples and fine tuning. It is assumed that most of the readers posting editions are quite familiar with these.
3. A way to get your music into the program (MIDI keyboard, guitar or wind controller - or the computer mouse and keyboard). Again we assume most IMSLP contributors are well versed in one or more of these. And for some, this is where their resources end so we'll be looking at what we can do just in these notation programs to get a better sound.
4. A digital audio workstation (DAW) sequencer/mixing program like Cubase, Sonar, Digital performer, Pro Tools (etc). Typically these are more memory efficient than the Notation programs and allow you to fine tune MIDI parameters - but now the Notation programs let you bring up MIDI editing tools as well (they are just typically more cumbersome to use).
5. A post production program like Steinberg Waves (though the DAWs have a lot of these features too) to apply panning, reverb, compression, limiting and level adjustment among other things to get a better final mix. Typically we'll import a .wav file into one of these and work with the uncompressed 16 or 24 bit file and eventually compress to .mp3.
6. Sound processing plug-ins. The DAWs and post production programs typically provide a full range of sound processing, but you may want some special (and better) plugins by Waves or PSP Audio. For example plugin to give you better equalization and noise reduction. Likely you don;t have to worry too much about extra cost here if you are running one of the standard DAWs.
So now we are ready to start experimenting. I will post versions of pieces using a number of these sample libraries with the links on my page that I will list on this forum - though the administrators may want to allocate some special server space for this? Ideally we'll want to have a separate link for:
1. Full Orchestra Examples
2. Chamber Orchestra
3. Strings
4. Woodwinds
5. Brass
6. Percussion (Orchestral and Ethnic)
7. Solo Instrument Comparison (Violin, Viola, Cello, Flute, etc)
8. Keyboards and Plucked Strings (Piano, Harpsichord, Organ, Harp)
9. Vocal/Choir
Now lets have some fun and learn together. If you are interested, in the next few days I will start things off by posting a comparison of a variety of digital and sampled harpsichords on my composers page (though if the administrators would like it to be somewhere else they are free to move it).
Getting Better Virtual Performances of Classical Music
Moderator: kcleung