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This is a little weird

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:31 pm
by Eric
It seems that the composer category, and all music by, the composer Yrjö Kilpinen (1892-1959) has disappeared. I can't think of any copyright reason, publication of his music occurred in a reasonable time (and we have music by composers whose music was all published after 1966 anyway- but his wasn't) - am I just making an incorrect search? I searched on the site under Kilpinen just now and only one page turned up on the whole site. I recall there being a category and lots of workpages. ??

(My first clue was that we weren't turning up in a Google search for Kilpinen. First, I thought Google was pissed off with us :D )

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:25 pm
by coulonnus
I don't find him on http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Composers#fcfrom:K Hope Kilpinen is the last name?

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:13 pm
by Eric
Yrjö Kilpinen, Finnish song composer. No, he's not listed anymore, I thought we used to...

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:37 am
by coulonnus
Do you remember one work title? Some "wierd" sites store copies of imslp pages and I'll search.

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:50 am
by coulonnus
Eric wrote:(My first clue was that we weren't turning up in a Google search for Kilpinen[...]

I wish I could try yahoo.com, bing.com or qwant.com but they don't have the site:imslp.org feature of Google. Which words are present on every work page, besides complete score? I know Google contestants. :-)

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:18 pm
by Eric
Hrm ? I just typed Kilpinen site:imslp.org .

Then today I went to archive.org and wayback-machined

imslp.org/wiki/Category:Kilpinen,_Yrjö

with or without umlaut, middle-name, etc, several variants. It has no such page archived. Maybe I'm just mistaken after all and no such category or pages were ever uploaded, but I was pretty sure. Nothing in the deletion logs that I see, either.

Ok, something for the wishlist (using Worldcat, etc. to populate with most interesting and "PD" song cycles and other works from his output.) I'm surprised, though. Sorry. Waste of a good question. I really thought I remembered a lot of Kilpinen workpages and even some performances of reductions for piano. My memory it is going and going and going. Blast!! :(

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:55 pm
by Eric
The works I'd be most interested in (e.g. cello sonata Op.90; 6 piano sonatas up to Op.89 ; violin sonata) were I think composed a bit too late anyway (1936 or so for the cello sonata (©1939 in US, 1948 in Europe, 1951 in E Germany, am I _reading_ that right?) and the 6th piano sonata (ah. ©1943, pub.1948 - wartime issues perhaps), I believe... unless the 1943 one was this "Pastoral-Sonate, Op.82" and the librarian just misread it as the 5th? sonata, Op.85... bother bother... also: "Suite für Violoncell oder Gambe und Klavier, Op. 91." looks interesting)

Still, that leaves a lot of well-regarded songs, I gather (which haven't done badly on the recording front actually)

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:54 am
by David Campbell
The Opus 82 is a five movement Pastoral-Suite.

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:55 pm
by coulonnus
Searching websites of US or European libraries is useless. You know this. Try perhaps http://fr.scorser.com

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:24 pm
by Eric
I'm well able to get his list of works with composition dates. I'm interested in dates of publication and copyright dates/renewal dates. Probably the best websites to check are OPACs of Finnish libraries, for obvious reasons, since Worldcat is no longer interested in them, etc. Will check. Scorser - ca semble être un peu comme les sites américains (pour moi un peu plus intéressant, regrette...) "Sheetmusicplus", aussi "Amazon.com" et ceux-cies. Erm. (OPAC == "Online public access catalog" = Catalogue d'accès public en ligne/sur web (ou, telnet, FTP, ... bien sûr- ainsi Gopher...)

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:36 pm
by Eric
The Finnish network "Helmet" (haku.helmet.fi I think) has about 260 works of sheet music by, including collections containing, Kilpinen; not sure how many aren't in the sources -already- sought though...

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:43 pm
by Eric
Ah, the National Library of Finland has 504... (looking for any mention whether the first 5 piano sonatas or violin sonata were published, though.) Ah. "Sonaatit, piano, nro 3, op85", pub.1943.

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:52 pm
by Eric
And This Kilpinen Biography and Worklist in Finnish (PDF) gives (p.46)

Op.81 - 1st sonata (1931) ("Teosta ei ole julkaistu" - "This work has not been published") ; Op.82 - Pastoral-suite (1932-6, pub.1943) ; Op.83 - 2nd sonata (1933, "This work has not been published") ; Op.84 - Totentanzsuite (1932-36, published 1943); Op.85 - Piano sonata no.3 (1933, published 1943) ; Op.86 - Piano Sonata no.4 (1935-6, This work ...) ; Op.87 - violin sonata (1935) ; Op.88 - piano sonata no.5 (1935, not published); Op.89 - Piano sonata no.6 (1936, published 1943) ; Op.90 - cello sonata (1936, published 1939)

Re: This is a little weird

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:18 pm
by Carolus
As long as you can document a performance/broadcast, recording or "delivery" (likely meaning a contract for publication) more than 50 years ago, the work is eligible. Since he died after 1948, the rule in Canada gets stricter and items not meeting the above criteriae are eligible for Canada's 50 year term for posthumous publication. Even totally unperformed works of those who died 1948 and before are free in Canada.