What IMSLP server are Australians/New Zealanders pointed to?

For general discussions related to the regional servers (please do not use for general discussions about IMSLP)

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Epos
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What IMSLP server are Australians/New Zealanders pointed to?

Postby Epos » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:11 pm

And what copyright expiry restrictions are they placed under at IMSLP?

If I see it right, in AU/NZ we generally have the most free public domain rules here (even for the high profile cases like Bartok and so forth). It's 50 years instead of 75.

So if there's certain files placed on US servers which aren't PD in EU, or ones that are PD in EU but not US, maybe ALL of those files are by definition PD in Australia. And maybe some would be PD in Au/NZ only, and just haven't been posted to IMSLP yet since there's no offering for Australians or New Zealanders(?).

What is done in these cases? Do Australian's have to choose between EU/US - can they even technically do this? Which one are they served from?

Should there be an 'Oceania' server set up and is there anything I could do to help with that? (Storage and bandwidth really aren't that expensive, you know. I don't know about copyright PD laws in Malaysia but hosting is cheap and reliable there.)

Thx for the info.

steltz
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Re: What IMSLP server are Australians/New Zealanders pointed

Postby steltz » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:42 pm

At the moment, as far as I know, you will be pointed to wherever the music is -- if the music is uploaded to the EU server, that is where you will be downloading it from. There is no central server that has everything on it, and therefore the servers have to only have on them what is legal for the country the server is situated in.

Therefore, all downloaders are subject to the same restrictions -- because it would be illegal to have pieces of a composer who died in 1961 on the EU server. So no one gets them.

It would therefore be very useful to have someone set something up in a life+50 country, but maybe other users can make suggestions as to how to go about that.
bsteltz

Epos
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Re: What IMSLP server are Australians/New Zealanders pointed

Postby Epos » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:16 pm

I'm very confused.

The case study I'm using is the Bartok page, and the Bartok Viola Concerto. on the bartok page it says the two servers are located within Canada (not EU, or US). And at http://imslp.org/wiki/Pre-1923_copyright_law it says "IMSLP follows Canadian copyright laws because the two main IMSLP servers are physically hosted in Canada."

That's already a life+50 years country.

So why can't Australians, New Zealdners and Canadians upload to the IMSLP (Canada) server(s) and this be fine?

If it is hosted in Canada, IMSLP shouldn't be accountable for EU and US users illegally downloading B&H Bartok Editions still in copyright in those regions.

I agree that an IP-based solution would solve any problem if the site faced legal action due to this. (sounds a hassle to code though...all changes like that are.)

But I just can't see why right now, we cannot post the bartok viola concerto (1949 B&H Edition), and am wondering how there might be a way, within the current structure of things, to set up a way to do it, with IMSLP. From what I can see nothing needs to be done in the way of setting up new servers, we HAVE Canada already.

So what is to be the solution? a BIG warning placed on these particular files that it is illegal to (blaaaa......) and that it is your responsibility (blaaaa......)?

Again I apoligise for my limited understanding of everything based on my observation so far, it looks complex and an already-long-discussed issue up to this point.


= = =


Also (I will edit this out once dealt with since it's off topic) - can I ask how many posts I have to make/days to be a member before I can post without moderation happening?

I am a classical musician, and also experienced internet forum user. I have in fact admined and moderated several forums and discussion boardsin the past, for various different interests. Quite frustrating not to be able to do various things right off the bat.

e.g. - I wanted PM you steltz, to ask about exactly what I'm asking about now - but I couldn't do that either ;).

Carolus
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Re: What IMSLP server are Australians/New Zealanders pointed

Postby Carolus » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:42 pm

First of all, Australia and New Zealand are not the same as regards copyright term. Australia's is 70 pma while NZ's is 50 pma. Australia's 70 pma was thankfully not retroactive, so only authors who died 1955 and later are protected for 70 years. Thus, Sibelius and Vaughan Williams are protected in Australia, but public domain in New Zealand.

The corporate entity which owns the site, Project Petrucci LLC, is located in the USA. Thus we have to apply both US and Canadian copyright rules to things resident on the main server, which is in Canada. If there was a sympathetic person in New Zealand who wished to set up a server operation similar to one presently in place for IMSLP/EU, this thorny issue would be resolved as it would free all the works of composers like Bartok and Prokofiev. This would be of great benefit to users in Asia (where the terms are generally 50 pma) and in Canada. It would resolve the nasty [TB] = temporary block issue which has plagued us ever since we reopened under the corporate entity.

Epos
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Re: What IMSLP server are Australians/New Zealanders pointed

Postby Epos » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:00 am

Carolus wrote:First of all, Australia and New Zealand are not the same as regards copyright term. Australia's is 70 pma while NZ's is 50 pma. Australia's 70 pma was thankfully not retroactive, so only authors who died 1955 and later are protected for 70 years. Thus, Sibelius and Vaughan Williams are protected in Australia, but public domain in New Zealand.

oh ok sorry, I must have been accidentally including Australia along with New Zealand when I was thinking about the 50 year thing, as it's been famous among violists that it's only "down under" that new edits of bartok's unfinished viola concerto have been able to be completed (due to 50 vs. 75 years), and....yeah, I guess they're always done in New Zealand and not Australia (but afaik you CAN BUY it Australia as well as NZ - but apparently not overseas, legally. i think you can't even record or perform these new versions outside of new zealand! (at least for now...)

Indeed after reading more forum topics and taking a closer look at IMSLP I see you're the expert :).

The corporate entity which owns the site, Project Petrucci LLC, is located in the USA. Thus we have to apply both US and Canadian copyright rules to things resident on the main server, which is in Canada. If there was a sympathetic person in New Zealand who wished to set up a server operation similar to one presently in place for IMSLP/EU, this thorny issue would be resolved as it would free all the works of composers like Bartok and Prokofiev. This would be of great benefit to users in Asia (where the terms are generally 50 pma) and in Canada. It would resolve the nasty [TB] = temporary block issue which has plagued us ever since we reopened under the corporate entity.

Ok. I would like to help. But for a couple small reasons, I'd like to PM you what I was going to ask instead of on the forum. But I cannot PM, I am restricted. Please help :).

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Choralia
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Re: What IMSLP server are Australians/New Zealanders pointed

Postby Choralia » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:26 am

Epos wrote:I cannot PM, I am restricted

You shouldn't be restricted any more now.

Epos
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Re: What IMSLP server are Australians/New Zealanders pointed

Postby Epos » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:22 am

Thank ooo!

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