Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

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Irishmaestro
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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score

Postby Irishmaestro » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:15 pm

Evidently, over 100 cantatas by J.S. Bach are lost, and I often wonder what those were like. One can only imagine how much wonderful music has been lost, possibly never to be heard again.

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score

Postby Eric » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:21 pm

Irishmaestro wrote:Evidently, over 100 cantatas by J.S. Bach are lost, and I often wonder what those were like. One can only imagine how much wonderful music has been lost, possibly never to be heard again.


Well, hopefully he recycled some of that music in other works, but agreed. Some recent scholarship about his number of lost works comes not just from inventories by relatives etc. by the way but also from, I gather, studies comparing the paper consumption during a certain period to the paper used by the works we have from Bach (and other Weimar composers?) from, e.g. I guess, around the time of a famous Weimar library fire (or was that afterwards?... not sure, not sure. Anyhow, what I vaguely recall reading about this inquiry looked very interesting...)

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score

Postby Graham1973 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:14 am

I was just reading the 1977 Thematic Catalog of Ferdinand Ries and spotted a note to the effect that late in Ries life he was comissioned by a music publisher in Paris (Schlesinger) to arrange 20 piano pieces (not specified) by Beethoven for string quartet (12) and string quintet (8). Of these at least 11 were completed, but at the time the Thematic Catalog had been completed none had come to light.

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score

Postby Eric » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:18 pm

Do you mean Hill's Ries thematic catalog, or a reprint of Ries' own manuscript catalog (which has been re-uploaded- by me *sigh* - to IMSLP- well, ok, it was worth doing... - but which is not as reliable as I once thought, I gather...)

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score

Postby Graham1973 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:35 pm

Eric wrote:Do you mean Hill's Ries thematic catalog, or a reprint of Ries' own manuscript catalog (which has been re-uploaded- by me *sigh* - to IMSLP- well, ok, it was worth doing... - but which is not as reliable as I once thought, I gather...)


Hill's catalog, you know I've always wondered if there had been any further attempt to update that after Hill bought out his addenda in 1982?

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score

Postby Eric » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:37 pm

I don't know. But while it's not a thematic catalog, This is sort of interesting and maybe useful... (I do not know if it is more recent than Hill's addenda, though I hope so, since there has been a series of published Ries scores, chamber and orchestral and concertante, and still are - most recently a series of the concerti published (appropriately? :) ) by Ries & Erler, no.8 for piano in A-flat in an edition by Bert Hagels just last year, and before that the Konzert für zwei Hörner und Orchester, WoO 19 edited by Carlos Crespo, just for instance (that one ©2012, again Ries&Erler); I can't imagine that ongoing series hasn't been accompanied by ongoing scholarship, too...)
Last edited by Eric on Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: ah, according to the Worldcat, I missed something there

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

Postby rop » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:29 am

i'd love to hear villa-lobos' 5th symphony from 1920.
it includes bands & chorus. it was nicknamed "a paz" as the 3rd of a series (1st: a guerra, 2nd: a vitoria)
rumour has it his jealous wife has deliberately made it lost when sending it after him to paris.

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

Postby Eric » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:49 pm

On the flip side, I recently learned that quite a few of Martinů's works - some of which I was aware of but really did think were lost - including his first string trio - have been rediscovered and premiered in the last 10-15 years...

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

Postby almound » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:05 pm

Many of the Wolfgang Mozart concerti have been lost. I'm especially interested in his trombone concerto. (His father, Leopold's trombone concerto is quite alive and kicking: https://youtu.be/ABsX8xJdX0k)

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

Postby Eric » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:39 pm

Some of Wolfgang Mozart's concertos have been lost, what from where do you get "many"? (Zaslaw does mention a lost trumpet concerto, btw, which I agree might have been interesting. Interested too in the source on that trombone concerto. There have been some fine (trombone) ones besides Leopold's, tangentially, but that's a different topic; a favorite of mine is a 1950? one by Vagn Holmboe :), part of a series that also includes one for trumpet... )

@rop- hadn't heard that story about why VL's 5th symphony was lost, but I too would love to hear it. (And more of his music than I've heard so far. He's not usually most associated with the "standard forms" but his string quartets, that I've heard, are wonderful. E.g. :) )

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

Postby LucasSACastro » Sun May 15, 2016 4:45 pm

The original "Triumphal March", from Francisco Manuel da Silva; this piece, whose original form is unknown (although supposed to be orchestral or to air band), is now used in three different arrangements (none of which claims to be original) as the Brazilian National Anthem; there are countless unofficial arrangements of it, as well, which tend to oversimplify and modify the music. The oldest versions we have today, however, are for pianoforte: probably descendent from a transcription from Silva itself, but not the legendary original form, nonetheless.

Great loss to our nation!

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

Postby klop422 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:09 pm

Apparently Mozart also wrote a piece with Salieri, but that one is lost. That would probably have been a treat to listen to.

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

Postby Eric » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:14 pm

Re Mozart/Salieri collaboration- well, Mozart participated in a number of joint efforts with his contemporaries, so makes sense, though I don't know why the one with Salieri would be especially interesting (the Mozart/Salieri legend aside, which is thin whatever)

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

Postby Notenschreiber » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:47 pm

The piece, that Mozart and Salieri wrote in collaboration has been recovered:

http://www.timojoukoherrmann.de/

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Re: Lost works you would most like to hear or find the score.

Postby Graham1973 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:36 pm

Notenschreiber wrote:The piece, that Mozart and Salieri wrote in collaboration has been recovered:

http://www.timojoukoherrmann.de/


A belated comment, what a wonderful find. Has a recording been made of it yet?


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