Monteverdi works from UE

[Boccaccio]

Is the Monteverdi Edition from UE in the public domain and can be uploaded?

[pml]

Is the Monteverdi Edition from UE in the public domain and can be uploaded?

It will depend on the extent of the editorial contribution and the identity of the editor(s). The urtext provisions in the European Union limit the copyright of strict urtext editions to 30 years after publication as a maximum: the issue with editorial contributions is that if they exhibit sufficient originality they are entitled to the normal protections granted to composers, in their own right.

For instance, the editions edited by Luigi Torchi (1858 - 1920) are no longer troubled by the problem of editorial copyright, however Gian Francesco Malipiero, who edited the entire works, died as recently as 1973. Unless it can be argued this score or that has minimal editorial input, then his scores are locked up until 2024 (or 2044 in the EU).

A quick search showed other editors such as Jürgen Jürgens, who edited the UE score of the 1610 Vespers, were still around as of c. 1993.

Regards, Philip

[wmichael taylor]

Dover had in their catalogue Books IV, V & VIII of the Madrigals reprinted from the Malipiero edition, so maybe this throws some light on the extent of the editor's contribution (which was, principally, the transcription of the part-books into score, and adjudication when common sense indicated the need for accidentals). The Dover edition is no longer extant.

[Boccaccio]

I own both Dover editions (IV and V are in one book) but I do not think they provide any further insight. What would really help probably is only to have the original part-books. For the time being we then have to live with the knowledge that some parts of the edition are currently on the web but not on IMSLP.

[pml]

A clue to the Dover scores may be if they are (or were) touted as being for sale only in the United States. Book VIII is certain to have continuo realisations by Malipiero, which would put it in the category I described upthread (valid copyright in CA/EU). As for Books IV & V, these are simply for 5 voices and any keyboard part will likely be a reductio partituræ, rather than a realisation. I would suggest this volume is probably suitable for inclusion in IMSLP.

Regards, Philip

[Carolus]

This discussion aroused my curiosity, since I own both the Dover volumes issued (Books 4/5, Book 8). Malipiero does indeed include a continuo realization, starting with the Madrigals of Book 5. It is in a small-sized staff above the bottom (basso continuo) staff of each system, and would not be difficult to strip out. However, as PML mentions, continuo realizations are original contributions on the editor's part, unless it's a rare case where the editor has taken a contemporary realization and inserted it in the score (which is not the case here). Such original editorial contributions are most likely protected for 50pma in Canada and 70pma in the EU, which means we can't allow them here at IMSLP. The two volumes, which are no longer in print, are free in the USA but nowhere else (apart from places like Aruba and Afghanistan).

[pml]

Hi Carolus,

you have the advantage of me; unfortunately I don't have a copy of either Dover volume, and would have to visit the library to reacquaint myself with the Malipiero scores. Is the continuo in Book V an independent realisation, and not just a simple compression of the polyphonic parts? Anyway, if the transcription of Book IV lacks a continuo of any kind, then I dare say it may be included without danger. One book out of those three has to be better than none :)

Regards, Philip

[Boccaccio]

Why is the Dover edition free while the original Malipiero obviously is not? Dover was definitively not US-only, because I got them here in Germany as well. Apart from that: One probably could not distinguish between Dover and Malipiero, could one?

[Carolus]

It's actually an independent realization (barely), not a literal compression of the vocal parts. It's very restrained and in places actually comes close to being a compression. Bocaccio, the Dover edition is a reprint of the Malipiero. It's public domain in the USA (only) due to the rather labyrinthine nature of US copyright law. I don't know for sure if the urtext sections of EU laws cover continuo realizations or not. I would have thought not, because of the original nature of the editor's contribution. However, I've noticed a number of items at in the Munich State Library's online collection which include such realizations - even where the editor is still alive. So, maybe MDZ knows something about Germany's article 70 that I don't, or maybe they're being overly expansive in its interpretation.

[wmichael taylor]

I agree that the partbooks would be a good addition to IMSLP. They are reproduced as part of the Cremona edition, and, while they (presumably) cannot be copied from that source, there must be earlier reproductions that could now be scanned (as with L'Orfeo). Incidentally, Scribd has had no scruples about posting the Malipiero Books IV & V!

[Boccaccio]

Scribd has no scruples about the whole edition, because I think there is no central commitee judging every contribution made there.

[homerdundas]

Rewarming an old thread....
I have access to digital copies of these UE editions - there doesn't seem to be a conclusion from these posts as to whether or not we can upload to IMSLP. I will add the following to the debate: The several works I have looked at - do not have copyright notices, and do not have any date (other than a facsimile of the front page of the original 17th c.) That includes book 6 of madrigals (UE. 9586). Should I list the UE titles and plate numbers for further study?

[vinteuil]

Please.

[homerdundas]

Mottetto A Voce sola in Basso, SV. 262
aus: sämtliche Werke, Malipiero, Bd. XV/1, Musica Religiosa
©Copyright 1967 by Universal Edition A.G., Wien Universal Edition Nr. 14523
8pp (pages '189' to '194')
(small treble clef realization)

Canzonette e Scherzi Musicali
Printed in the EU, DT 5/2007
©Copyright by Universal Edition A.G., Wien UE 9590
100pp
C. Moneverdi - Opere - Tomo X


Si ch'io vorrei morire, SV. 89
12pp
Sämtliche Madrigale
©Copyright 1967 by Universal Edition A.G., Wien UE 32067
(Quoting the Foreword:)
All markings... are the suggestions of the editor... Malipiero. ...the music has been revised and notes for the performer... by Denis Arnold.


Se i languidi miei sguardi (Lettera amorosa)
8pp ('161' to '166')
aus: sämtliche Werke...Malipiero, Bd. VII, Canti amorosi UE 32119
(small treble clef realization)
(n.d., no notices)

Armato il cor, SV 150
aus: sämtliche Werke...Malipiero, Bd. IX/2, Madrigali e Canzonette
UE 32146
8pp ('27' to '31')
(small treble clef realization)
(n.d., no notices)

Sí dolce è’l tormento in C Major, SV 332
aus: sämtliche Werke...Malipiero, Bd. IX, Madrigali e Canzonette
UE 32163
4pp ('119')
(small treble clef realization)
(n.d., no notices)

Il Secondo Libro de Madrigali di Claudio Monteverdi
UE 9426
116pp
Printed in the EU, DT 2/2007
C.Monteverdi - Opere - Tomo II.
(no notices)

Start with these, then I will post a few more. Thanks, all.

[Carolus]

There's been some funny business going on with Malipiero's Monteverdi edition. Apparently, many volumes were issued in the 1920s under Malipiero's own imprint without copyright notice, etc. Later on, UE reissued the series and affixed notices (a practice which seems to have been adopted by a fair number of German and Austrian publishers - Peters being the worst offender). Dover reprinted a couple of volumes, which tells us that at least some volumes are free in the USA. Heyer lists the dates of issue for 16 volumes as 1926-1942. I am very suspicious of the 1967 claim by UE, though it's not impossible that Malipiero (still alive in 1967) made revisions to the edition.