Norton "edition" of Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique

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imslp
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Post by imslp »

Hahaha... Carolus flatters me too much ;)

But yes, from my understanding of the Canadian law this would be true via the Berne Rule of the Shorter Term.

Regarding the NBE, if we are to believe this page, quite a few volumes of the NBE were published very recently (quite a few post-2000 in fact). The Barenreiter site agrees...
Carolus
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Post by Carolus »

I note that there are a few important works in the NBE that are pre-1982: including the Symphonie Fantastique, Les Troyens, among others. I certainly see your point about not wanting a partial selection, though.

There is a complete listing of the contents for the "Alte Berlioz Ausgabe" in the book by Anna Harriet Heyer entitled Historical Sets, Collected Editions, and Monuments of Music. There are at least four editions of this book out, the first ed. dating from 1959 or so and the third from the 1980s. You can find copies of the 1st and 2nd eds. for cheap ($10-20) on Abebooks or Alibris. I'll help to construct a listing of the Malherbe and Weingartner edition. The edition is incomplete mainly due to their failure to include the opera Benvenuto Cellini. As it stands, their edition is made up of 20 volumes (bound in 18).

Speaking of Berlioz, it looks like Google books has an early edition of the vocal score for the Te Deum available for download that was published by Brandus. If someone has the magical software to strip out all the annoying Google logos that appear to be embedded as a virtual watermark on every single page, it might be worthwhile to add to the collection.
daphnis
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Post by daphnis »

Hmm...I'm a bit confused then on the contents of the Malherbe/Weingartner edition, because although I've not personally seen them, Kalmus has reprinted this edition and the records I've seen indicates 25 volumes where vol.24 is Benvenuto Cellini. Looking at another record of the original printing by Breitkopf indicates just 20 volumes.

BTW, I may have found what I need as far as index/contents of the volumes are concerned. I copied this straight from a WorldCat record for the Breitkopf entry:

Instrumental-Musik. Ser. I. Symphonien. Bd. I. Symphonie fantastique. Symphonie funèbre et triomphale.--Bd. II. Harold en Italie.--Bd. III. Roméo et Juliette. Ser. II. Ouverturen. Bd. IV. Waverley. Les francs juges. Le roi Lear. Rob Roy.--Bd. V. Benvenuto Cellini. Le carnaval romain. La fuite en Egypte. Le corsaire. Béatrice et Bénédict. Les Troyens à Carthage. Ser. III. Kleinere Instrumentalwerke. Bd. VI. Fugue à deux choeurs et deux contre-sujets. Fugue à trois sujets. Rêverie et caprice. Sérénade agreste à la Madone. Hymne pour l'élévation. Toccata. Marche funèbre pour la dernière scéne d' "Hamlet." Marche troyenne. Gesangs-Musik. Ser. IV. Geistliche Werke. Bd. VII. Resurrexit. Coro del maggi. Grande messe des morts. Veni Creator. Tantum ergo.--Bd. VIII. Te Deum.--Bd. IX. L'enfance du Christ. Ser. V. Weltliche Kantaten. Bd. X. Scène héroïque (La révolution grecque) Huit scènes de "Faust."--Bd. XI/XII. La damnation de Faust.--Bd. XIII. Lélio, ou Le retour à la vie. Le cinq mai. L'impériale. Ser. VI. Gesänge mit Orchesterbegleitung. Bd. XIV. Méditaton religieuse. Chant sacré. Hélène. Chant des chemins de fer. La mort d'Ophélie. Sara la biagneuse. Hymne à la France. La ménace des Francs.--Bd. XV. Herminie. Cléopâtre. La belle voyageuse (Rich and rare) Le jeune pâtre breton. Absence. La captive. Zaïde. Le chasseur danois. Villanelle. Le spectre de la rose. Sur les lagunes. Au cimitière. L'île inconnune.; Ser. VII. Gesänge mit Pianofortebegleitung. Bd. XVI. Für chor. Für 3 oder 2 Singstimmen.--Bd. XVII. Für eine Singstimme. Ser. IX. Bearbeitungen. Bd. XVIII, Abt. 1. Rouget de Lisle. Hymne des Marseillais. Bortniansky, Pater noster. Bortniansky, Adoremus. Martini, Plaisir d'amour. Schubert, Der Erlkönig. Couperin, Invitation à louer Dieu. v. Weber, Invitation à la valse. Berlioz, Ouverture des "Francs juges." Abt. 2. Exemples donnés par Berlioz dans son Grand traité d'instrumentation. Ser. VIII. Opern. Bd. XIX/XX. Béatrice et Bénédict.

EDIT: Ah, I see all this info has been added to the composer page. Thank you!
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Post by daphnis »

Well I went today to my former university library and examined both the M/W Works edition as well as the new(er) NBE. Our library has the M/W edition reprinted by Kalmus, and it does indeed look that volumes 21-25 were addendums to the initial volumes 1-20. Moreover, vols. 21-25 are noticeably poor print that 1-20. I was also surprised to find out there existed no master index of these nor any indication that vols. 21-25 were not part of the "original" publication.

I also looked at the NBE published by Barenreiter and see it has been (is still?) a work in progress for the last 40-odd years as some of the volumes were published in the 60s and some in 2003 or 2005. And what more, it didn't seem that they had been published in a logical manner, such as in increasing volume numbers. Instead they seemed to jump around quite a bit with vol.1 published in 1997 and maybe vol.2 in 1990 etc etc. It did look like that in fact the majority of the NBE has been published since 1982, so if any of this edition were to be undertaken it would have to be done so with the realization that most would still be under copyright. Not to mention I don't see how contributors would be able to scan in any of these volumes should they choose to do so as they reside in the M3 section (monuments) according to the LoC system of classification and are rarely circulating volumes at most library systems in the US.
I also don't particularly care for the engraving of the NBE either. The print is huge and the layout is just not very considerate of the music not to mention the engraving of the music itself isn't very refined.

As for Te Deum, I'm planning on scanning this anew from Dover reprints sometime this year.
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Post by pml »

Actually the organisation of the NBE was planned out well in advance, and bears similarity to the explicit groupings in the Malherbe/Weingartner set. As a result it was always intended that the gradual issuing of volumes would occupy the period from 1967 to 2003 (and in practice, the three or so years after the bicentenary year!) rather than going through each workgroup piece by piece. It is now completed, unless for the unlikely circumstance that another major, missing work re-appears (see vol. 23 below!).

Operas:
Benvenuto Cellini (Volumes 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d)
Les Troyens (vol. 2a, 2b, 2c)
Béatrice et Benedict (vol. 3)
Opera fragments, e.g. Les Francs-juges, La nonne sanglante (vol. 4)

Large vocal and orchestral works:
Huit Scènes de Faust (vol. 5)
Prix de Rome cantatas, and other related music (vol. 6)
Lélio, ou la retour de la vie (vol. 7)
Le damnation de Faust (vol. 8a, 8b)
Grande messe des morts (vol. 9)
Te deum (vol. 10)
L'enfance du Christ (vol. 11)
Short works for choir and orchestra (vol. 12a, 12b)
Works for solo voice and orchestra (vol. 13)
Works for choir and keyboard accpt (vol. 14)
Songs for voice and piano (vol. 15)

Symphonies:
Symphonie fantastique (vol. 16)
Harold en Italie (vol. 17)
Roméo et Juliette (vol. 18)
Grande symphonie funèbre et triomphale (vol. 19)

Other orchestral music:
Overtures (vol. 20)

Other works:
Miscellaneous and fragmentary works (vol. 21)
Arrangements of Gluck and others (vol. 22a, 22b)

The 1991 rediscovery of the Messe solenelle threw out the latter numberings in this scheme by one:

Messe solenelle (vol. 23)

Grande traite d'instrumentation (vol. 24)
Catalogue of the musical works by D. Kern Holoman (vol. 25)
The Portraits of Hector Berlioz (vol. 26)

It's been noted elsewhere that even the NBE doesn't represent the last word on Berlioz's works: for example, despite the huge amount of work that went into recreating the various Paris and Weimar versions of Benvenuto Cellini, there is nothing on the 1853 Covent Garden version; and several pieces from the Holoman catalogue are inexplicably left out of volume 21 (supposedly the catch-all for miscellaneous works).

By the way, don't bother spending time scanning the Te Deum from the Dover reprint - I have got the whole in a new typeset which corrects many of the problems in the Malherbe/Weingartner version they used, which I'm proof-reading and will be posting here fairly soon.

Regards, Philip
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PML (talk)
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