Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

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easiest2remember
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Re: Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

Postby easiest2remember » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:54 pm

so from what i understand: canadians can upload scores of composers who died in 1963 or earlier from canada. other citizens can't.

I can ask my former host-family based in toronto to rent out the music of said piece (copyright 1948, poulenc died 1963) from a library (if possible) and upload it on the first of jan. 2014 - for them it would be legal, since they do it from canada and as canadian citizens are only obliged to follow the rules of canada (50 years plus).
Kind of a bummer, because i don't want them to go through the hassle of scanning the music, but for legal purpuses that might be a way.

easy

steltz
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Re: Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

Postby steltz » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:11 pm

While people in Canada can indeed scan from 2014, anything uploaded to IMSLP will be most probably be blocked because the servers are in the US.

In any case, I'm not sure what the point of this is for you -- you would not be able to use these scanned scores (or any copy of any sort, whether photocopy or typeset from recording) in Europe. You will still have to purchase or rent.

I always use my students as an example -- I live in a Life+50 country, so my students can photocopy or scan many composers that are in the public domain here. However, if they choose to go to Europe to do graduate work, they may not take those copies or scans with them unless they are also in the public domain there. If they want to play those pieces there, they will have to buy originals.
bsteltz

easiest2remember
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Re: Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

Postby easiest2remember » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:20 pm

true, and yes i understand you. i would not benefit personally but everyone in a 50+ years country would benefit.

Also i understand very well that i will have to rent out the poulenc scores every time i plan on performing them - doing otherwise would be illegal and also very stupid because there is an organisation in germany, called GEMA who take copyright violations (in performing rights) very very seriously (they have "spies" all over the place, so whenever an orchestra plays a work, by lets say ... shostakovich ... there is a very high probability of some gema official checking out the concert to see whether they rented the ridiculously expensive music)

i was under the impression that users in canada can download 50+ scores (hosted in canada) as long as they agree to the disclaimer (i.e. : yes i'm canadian or some other country that has 50+ years)
Choralia wrote:This is, more or less, what IMSLP is doing: obey both the copyright laws of U.S.A. (where IMSLP is incorporated - some kind of citizenship for a company) and those of Canada (where the main server is located - some kind of visited country for a provider of contents via web).

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Re: Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

Postby Choralia » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:37 pm

easiest2remember wrote:i was under the impression that users in canada can download 50+ scores (hosted in canada) as long as they agree to the disclaimer (i.e. : yes i'm canadian or some other country that has 50+ years)

No, they cannot. Scores that are PD only in Canada are not available to anybody. Scores that are PD in US and not in Canada are available on the US server. Scores that are PD in Canada and EU but not in US are available on the EU server.

It is quite difficult to find a country that simultaneously meets the following requirements:

1) copyright duration is 50 years;

2) laws are written in English (or translations into English are somehow official and regularly maintained, so that it is possible to know the details of such laws in an international context);

3) providers of contents via web are not liable for contents published automously by users insofar the provider is unaware that contents are illegal (e.g., DMCA regulations in the U.S.).

For example, Canada meets requirements 1 and 2, not 3. EU and US meet 2 and 3, not 1. Maybe some Asian countries meet 1 and 3, but not 2. Quite tricky.

Max

easiest2remember
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Re: Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

Postby easiest2remember » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:24 pm

ahh, now i understand. awful, really!

so liability issues in canada are basically the reason, even though you use a disclaimer that says like (hey only you canadians can go ahead and download).
however: if you were to use an ip-filter (there are ip-location services that tell you where an acessing ip is coming from) one could argue that imslp has taken all necessary precautions to prevent non-canadians from downloading. Viacom is doing this with amrican TV-Shows (Colbert report and daily show, until 2 years ago, at least), as well as providers like hulu (if you access it from germany it says: this content is not available from your location.

other than that all we can do in europe is wait for the 70+ years period to pass or, (unrealistic) apply pressure ("Volksbegehren") on our politicians to represent the public interest and change the f***ed up copyright law.

there is no chance that Poulenc will be PD in the US and Canada, as i see it :/

if only imslp had the resources to check out locations like tha cayman islands or some other island state that has conditions 1, 2 and 3. ... *wishful thinking*

easy

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Re: Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

Postby Choralia » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:34 pm

easiest2remember wrote:*wishful thinking*

This is being thoroughly analyzed. Maybe one day someone in a 50 pma country will manage a local server and do what I'm currently doing to manage and be responsible for the IMSLP-EU server (and, by the way, for these forums as well - they are under my personal responsibility, too).

Max

easiest2remember
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Re: Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

Postby easiest2remember » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:46 pm

got it, so no "hacking instrucktions" or hints as to how to get to music that is not PD in this forum, otherwise you would get in trouble because of the fabulous "Hackerparagraph" (i'm guessing you're from germany? ^^)

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Re: Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

Postby Choralia » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:47 am

No, that's not the reason in facts. Other users who have no liability for this server have anyway contributed with their posts, and they all brought to you more or less the same two messages:

1) pay attention that you yourself may (even unknowingly) be liable for a copyright violation;

2) your effort to rent parts, scan, retype, etc., may be vain because, at the present time, there is no "pure 50 pma server" that may lawfully host Poulenc's scores from 2014 onwards.

I'm an Italian citizen and this server is located in the US, so my liability about messages posted on these forums is pretty well shielded by EU and US regulations on the matter.

Max

lieselotteodb
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Re: Poulenc will be in PD in 2014, soooooon!

Postby lieselotteodb » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:59 am

I know it is a bit dated,
but do you have the score of poulenc's L'invatitation au chateau now ? :D
I'm a student at the conservatory in Ghent, and we wish to play it for our exam (which is closed) so it would not be for performing for an audience.
Can anybody help me with this ?
of course, i would pay for the score, not just copy it.

Thank you.


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