Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Moderators: daphnis, kcleung

jjg24
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:22 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby jjg24 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:28 am

Currently IMSLP has revised/critical editions of each of Mahler's symphonies 1-9 and Das Lied von der Erde, EXCEPT for No.5.
http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.5_(Mahler,_Gustav)

There are 3 main publications:
1904 first edition
1905 revised edition
1964 revised/critical edition
(later critical/revised editions also exist but these are non-PD)

The first two are uploaded, however the 1964 edition, the most useful one, is not. Could anyone make a clean scan of this please? It's the only one missing from my collection!

Many thanks!

jjg24
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:22 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby jjg24 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:45 am

All I can find is this:
http://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/ar ... 1/mode/2up

Which is a full scan of the 1964 revised edition, although it is
- not available to download
- full of the pencil markings
- not a good scan (yellow, sometimes faded pages, unwanted edges of the book and bindings visible).

Sallen112
active poster
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:52 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby Sallen112 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:23 pm

You could make a project and digitally convert them to black and white using Scantailor (as well as removing the markings). Also you can use Piupianissimo download tool for downloading the JPGs of the score from the site. Its very much possible to do, but very time consuming.

jjg24
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:22 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby jjg24 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:29 pm

Sallen112 wrote:You could make a project and digitally convert them to black and white using Scantailor (as well as removing the markings). Also you can use Piupianissimo download tool for downloading the JPGs of the score from the site. Its very much possible to do, but very time consuming.


Sadly I don't have the time, or the know-how, to do any of that stuff. The best I've done is to take some of the high quality scans of other Mahler symphonies that have been uploaded as A3 scans, and crop them using Briss to make a PDF of identically sized A4 pages. I've also taken other scores and cleaned them up (manually rotated pages, put it through de-speckle on Acrobat, cover up thick black scanning marks). In particular I have a beautiful PDF of Mahler's 3rd now - a much cleaner version of this score: http://imslp.eu/linkhandler.php?path=/i ... y_no_3.pdf

I'm happy to upload these if they're wanted, but would also love someone to scan the urtext edition of the 5th please!


EDIT: Screw it, I'm gonna give your suggestion a go! Hopefully can have a fair go of making a decent PDF.

jjg24
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:22 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby jjg24 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:47 pm

Sallen112 wrote:You could make a project and digitally convert them to black and white using Scantailor (as well as removing the markings). Also you can use Piupianissimo download tool for downloading the JPGs of the score from the site. Its very much possible to do, but very time consuming.


I'm trying it now using Scantailer. How do you remove the pencil markings?

jjg24
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:22 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby jjg24 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:20 pm

UPDATE

Ok, so I've used Scantailer and this guide, http://imslp.org/wiki/User:Geniusboy98#stguide, so far. Here's a preview of page 1:
http://imgur.com/a/h9p43

Sadly, I can't get rid of the pencil marks that are OVER the score itself. I can delete things in the margins, but not things like circles around notes. The blue pencil markings I can't get rid of, see http://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/ar ... 0/mode/2up for example

I'm afraid then, unless there's a magic way to get rid of them, that I'm still looking for an unblemished upload of this score. So close yet so far!

Many thanks to any one that can help.

Sallen112
active poster
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:52 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby Sallen112 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:07 am

There is no magic way of removing those type of markings, you have to manually redraw and remove them digitally to look like the original (its alot of careful work), I have to do this alot if there are alot of markings. The markings have to be removed if the score is to be uploaded on IMSLP (because the markings were done by Leonard Bernstein, who is under copyright everywhere). Basically get the score looking as close to the original clean copy as you can.

In the Fill Zone option, you can box out areas (you have to zoom in on the page) or really tiny areas that are hard to get at in the measures or the notes from far away on the page. Basically its like redrawing so it looks like the original. If the pencil markings cover the musical phrases, you'll have to redraw in the words. Its very possible but very time consuming. Obviously much easier if we had access to the original score to rescan for a clean copy but this is all we have access to for right now so best to take advantage of what is online!

Like I said originally, just make it a project to remove those markings, it'll be satisfying in the end to have a clean copy to work with!

coulonnus
active poster
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:53 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby coulonnus » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:58 am

jjg24 wrote:Sadly, I can't get rid of the pencil marks that are OVER the score itself. I can delete things in the margins, but not things like circles around notes. The blue pencil markings I can't get rid of, see http://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/ar ... 0/mode/2up for example

I believe I'm capable to remove all blue markings with an application of mine, but how can I obtain a batch of jpg's of this version?

coulonnus
active poster
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:53 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby coulonnus » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:04 am


But we may not upload that one after having obtained the jpg's? :-( Read their notice in the left column. I doubt they would consider the markings-removed condition.

Sallen112
active poster
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:52 pm
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby Sallen112 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:06 pm

coulonnus wrote:

But we may not upload that one after having obtained the jpg's? :-( Read their notice in the left column. I doubt they would consider the markings-removed condition.


It doesn't say anything about not removing markings is illegal. Keep in mind, the score is the original publication, not the score with the markings. Only if you upload the score with the markings is illegal.

jjg24
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:22 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby jjg24 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:43 pm

coulonnus wrote:
jjg24 wrote:Sadly, I can't get rid of the pencil marks that are OVER the score itself. I can delete things in the margins, but not things like circles around notes. The blue pencil markings I can't get rid of, see http://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/ar ... 0/mode/2up for example

I believe I'm capable to remove all blue markings with an application of mine, but how can I obtain a batch of jpg's of this version?


I used two programs to get them all, one recommended by Sallen112 (thank you).
- Piupianissimo: http://imslp.org/wiki/IMSLP:Obtaining_H ... ion_Images
This will download the files for you. It's very simple, the website explains it well (scroll down to NY Phil).

- ABIC https://sourceforge.net/projects/abic/
For some reason my computer didn't recognise the files that Piupianissimo had downloaded, so I used ABIC to convert them all to JPGs. Worked great!

Coulonnus: If you can somehow remove the pencil markings from the score, I'm happy to do everything else in ScanTailor in order to get this done. Here's the best I can currently do (page 2 of mvt. 1): http://imgur.com/a/xoTqH

Of course, if anyone out there has access to a clean copy of this, it'd be much appreciated if they could scan it! Now I can use ScanTailor, I'd be happy to do the cropping/readjusting etc. in ScanTailor. I just need a high quality scan.

Thanks all.

coulonnus
active poster
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:53 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby coulonnus » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:08 pm

I looked at the 1964 introduction: "Since realizing the 270 modifications this new edition requires would have crowded it too much, a distinct list was made. Interested people may request it from the editor. We'll just mention a few places requesting particular attention"

Then there is a list with 5 items. 2nd item is: p.39, meas 322, Violin 1, last note should be A instead of C. The 1964 edition was indeed modified.

If there is some interest I can translate the 4 other items. Hope such scientific ideas may not be copyrighted.
Last edited by coulonnus on Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

coulonnus
active poster
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:53 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby coulonnus » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:17 pm

Oh, I forgot! The 1964 edition has measure numbers! :-)

jjg24
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:22 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby jjg24 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:30 pm

coulonnus wrote:Oh, I forgot! The 1964 edition has measure numbers! :-)


Ah yes - another reason why having the 1964 edition would be useful, as the 1904/5 editions on IMSLP don't have them.

coulonnus
active poster
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:53 am
notabot: 42
notabot2: Human
Location: Nice, France
Contact:

Re: Mahler Symphony No 5 - REVISED 1964 score

Postby coulonnus » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:32 am

Sallen112 wrote:
coulonnus wrote:
jjg24 wrote: Only if you upload the score with the markings is illegal.

Interpreting this notice is difficult. In the view of some librarians their scanning a PD document provides something copyrighted.

And as you all know this edition is non-PD US. And the introduction is copyrighted.


Return to “Score Requests”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests