Die Seejungfrau (Zemlinsky)

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dwil9798
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Die Seejungfrau (Zemlinsky)

Postby dwil9798 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:26 am

I have always wanted this score. I know it was published in 1903 (or somewhere around there) making it PD in the US, Zemlinsky died in 1942 making it PD in Canada, (not sure about Europe, though). It was lost for some time though and rediscovered in the 1980's. Does that mean it was republished and now under recent copyright? Also if someone could give me a link to buy the score that would be much appreciated.

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Postby Vivaldi » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:38 am

I assume you mean Alexander von Zemlinsky?

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Postby Carolus » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:50 am

Although a number of music publishers seem to think it magically makes it so, reprinting something published in 1903 in 1983 does not grant a new copyright. It would have to be at least an "edition" with an editor credited as having made some sort of contribution that was sufficiently new and original to warrant a derivative work copyright, or - minimally in some EU countries - an urtext or typographical copyright.

If you have a 1903 score, you are absolutely free to post it on IMSLP provided you are doing so from a place where the work in question is public domain. Zemlinsky is still protected in the EU - until 2013. Works first published after his death may be protected longer in some countries - notably the UK.

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Postby Melodia » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:05 pm

This is one of my favorite pieces, and I'd love to have a score of it.

-Lala-

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Postby dwil9798 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:12 pm

It is one of my favorites also, but can never find the score. If someone, as I said earlier, could give me a link to buy the score, that would be great.

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Postby Carolus » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:23 am

Here's the sole record I found on First Search / OCLC:

    Title: Die Seejungfrau :
    Fantasie für Orchester (1903) /
    Author(s): Zemlinsky, Alexander, 1871-1942.
    Andersen,; 1805-1875. ; H. C.; (Hans Christian),; Lille havfrue.
    Publication: Wien : Universal Edition,
    Edition: Korr.
    Year: 2000, ©1984
    Description: 1 score (186 p.) ; 42 cm.
    Language: No Linguistic Content
    Music Type: Fantasias
    Standard No: Publisher: UE 31 754; Universal Edition; LCCN: 2002-541551
    SUBJECT(S)
    Descriptor: Orchestral music -- Scores.
    Note(s): Duration: ca. 45:00.
    General Info: Partitur.
    Class Descriptors: LC: M1045.Z5
    Responsibility: Alexander Zemlinsky.
    Document Type: Score


I strikes me as odd that UE would issue a 186-page score for the first time in 1984 for a 1903 work. Engraving a 186-page score is an expensive proposition even now with computerized music engraving. It was even more so in 1984, when the only engraving being done on any significant scale was in South Korea, with stamps and pen/ink work. The plate number, 31 754 is very high and quite unusual in its own right. Most UE issues into the 1970s were in the 12-15,000 range. Also note the reference to a corrected edition (though it's unclear whether that refers to the 2000 printing or the fact the the 1984 issue is a corrected edition of something issued earlier. I could not find anything available for sale at Sheet Music Plus, but there might be some other places where a copy could be found. I would have to examine the physical copy in detail to be able to have an idea of what is going on here. It's not impossible that they first published the piece in 1984, but the factors mentioned above make it somewhat more likely that they're up to something here.

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Postby Vivaldi » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:41 am

Carolus, since Zemlinsky died in 1942, would the work be PD in Canada, assuming that the 1984 edition by UE does not meet the threshold of originality needed to secure copyright protection for the work?

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Postby Carolus » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:50 am

Maybe, but it would take a detailed examination to make that determination. My hunch (and it's just a hunch, mind you) is that UE found a score that was originally issued ca.1910 and reprinted it as a "corrected edition" with a new copyright claim.

However, I can't say for sure that is the case unless I can actually see a copy of the score. The engraving of a score actually produced in the 1980s is going to look quite different from one produced ca.1910. That will be the telltale sign.

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Postby Vivaldi » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:48 am

I guess is that the only definitive way to determine if the 1984 edition has significant alterations for it to satisfy the threshold of originality would be to compare the 1903 and 1984 scores side by side.

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Re: Die Seejungfrau (Zemlinsky)

Postby wjbealer » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:54 am

When Bote & Bach still had a retail store in Berlin, I asked for a copy of this score. No luck. I see on Universal Edition's site (http://www.universaledition.com/truman/ ... eejungfrau) that the material is available for hire. I suppose someone associated with an orchestra--if you lived the United States, that is--could contact European American Music Distributors for a perusal copy.

A search of the Philadelphia Library also doesn't produce a score. Rather surprising since I peruse Schreker and Reznicek scores at the Central Library often.

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Re: Die Seejungfrau (Zemlinsky)

Postby Bowdonian » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:52 pm

You're all astray on this one. There is no "conspiracy" by Universal Edition. The work, written between 1902 and 1903 but revised before its 1905 premiere performance, was then withdrawn by the composer - unpublished.

It was thought lost until a long time after his death, until finally the manuscript 1st movement turned up in Vienna in the late 1970's. The remaining two movements were then located in Zemlinsky's archive papers in the USA, and the work reconstituted in the early 1980's for performance.

Universal's 1984 Edition (ed. Anthony Beaumont) is the First Edition. There never was a 1903 edition, of course, as the work had not been completed by then. There's no question at present of the work being PD, anywhere. Sadly, there's no study score available for sale either, which is the real scandal here.

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Re: Die Seejungfrau (Zemlinsky)

Postby pml » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Thanks for that info, Bowdonian, though next time you might leave out the scare quotes around ‘conspiracy’ – no one in the thread had used that word until you brought it up. ;-)

Cheers Philip
--
PML (talk)

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Re: Die Seejungfrau (Zemlinsky)

Postby Carolus » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:18 am

So 1984 is actually the first publication then. Under the EU's rule of editio princeps, the 25-year term would have expired in 2010 had Zemlinsky died before 1940. However, he lived until 1942, which means it is protected there until 2013. It would be covered in Canada until 2035 unless there was a public performance before the composer withdrew the work. In the USA, it's locked up until 1/1/2049.

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Re: Die Seejungfrau (Zemlinsky)

Postby Bowdonian » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:50 pm

pml wrote:Thanks for that info, Bowdonian, though next time you might leave out the scare quotes around ‘conspiracy’ – no one in the thread had used that word until you brought it up. ;-)

Point taken, Philip! My apologies. The word and quotes were shorthand for the suggestion made on the thread that UE were possibly "up to something here". To be even-handed to them, they've played fair in publishing such a fabulous piece for (I'd guess) little gain. If only they'd get that Study Score out for us...

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Re: Die Seejungfrau (Zemlinsky)

Postby Composer85 » Sat May 07, 2011 6:00 am

Your only hope of viewing the score, before 2049 or whatever date it is until the score is released in the US for purchasing, is by renting it for a fee, but you must be a music student at a university. A professor must confirm this and have the score sent to the schools address to ensure safety. Although, you could easily (illegally) copy the score once it's in your possession. Nothing is ever protected 100%. It's absolutely ridiculous that this score (among many others) cannot be released to the public. There's no good reason for 'locking' them up. Stupid law makes no sense. There's no harm in purchasing an orchestral score. I have hundreds of them.


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