Why is there no english opera？

[feqia]

My music teacher: "... and there is no such a thing as an english opera, for reasons you don't have to understand..."

Ok I don't perhaps …… maybe someone else does?

p.s. Britten?

[steltz]

In the sense that there is no romantic opera to rival La Traviata, La Boheme, Lucia di Lammermoor, or later, Wagner's contributions, your teacher is correct.

But it's a VERY narrow view, because outside of the Romantic era -- what about Handel? There are other Baroque English opera composers, too.

And yes, Britten definitely counts.

Your teacher appears to only consider one period.

[feqia]

Thanks!

As in the Romantic Era, what about the "reasons" he mentioned, he seems to be suggesting something technical.

[perlnerd666]

Handel is Italian opera, and he's german.

However:
Purcell: Dido and Aeneas, The Fairy-Queen
Britten: Death in Venice, Billy Budd, Turn of the Screw, Peter Grimes, etc.
http://imslp.org/index.php?title=Category:English_language&intersect=Operas

[pocoallegro]

Until the 20th century, English audiences favored oratorio over opera. Besides the masterful works of Britten, Vaughan Williams wrote the folk opera "Hugh the Drover," another telling of the Falstaff legend in "Sir John in Love," an eerie setting of Synge's "Riders to the Sea," the comic "The Poisoned Kiss," and the metaphysically powerful "The Pilgrim's Progress." Holst composed "The Wandering Scholar." Stanford wrote nine operas, I'm assuming in a late romantic tradition (I am unfamiliar with them). Tippett's operas are an acquired taste, but "A Midsummer Marriage" contains the glittering colors also heard in the 2nd Symphony. There have been many more recent operatic experiments as well (Birtwistle's "Punch and Judy," Ades' "The Tempest"), but it seems that English audiences continue to prefer the continental operatic tradition.

[Melodia]

Arthur Sullivan. Duh.

(And yes, even without Gilbert)

[perlnerd666]

Yeah, Birtwistle is wonderful—The Mask of Orpheus, Gawain, Punch, etc.

[sbeckmesser]

In the sense that there is no romantic opera to rival La Traviata, La Boheme, Lucia di Lammermoor, or later, Wagner's contributions, your teacher is correct.

But it's a VERY narrow view, because outside of the Romantic era -- what about Handel? There are other Baroque English opera composers, too.

And yes, Britten definitely counts.

Your teacher appears to only consider one period.

While your teacher may have blinders on, it is a valid question why no English opera from the 19th century -- and there were operas by English composers, as well as operas composed by others in English (Weber's Oberon, for one) -- holds the stage today, not even Arthur Sullivan's "serious" operas. And if one expands one's horizons only a little bit, you can ask the same question about the supposedly favorite English genre, oratorio. The only 19th century oratorio in English still performed with any frequency is Mendelssohn's Elijah. Next up would I guess be Elgar's Gerontius, but that dates from 1900 and isn't performed all that often in the USA (his later Kingdom, and Apostles are even rarer). And broadening out even further, one can ask similar questions about 19th century German opera not by Weber or Wagner. Only a few of these (by Nicolai, Lortzing, Humperdinck etc.) are done any more (Schumann's Genoveva a little too often, in my opinion). One of the most popular operas for much of 19th century, Spohr's Jessonda, has just about disappeared. I've been looking for a copy of the Orfeo CD at a reasonable price for a couple of years. These "forgotten" works cannot all be so inferior to the worst products of Rossini, Bellini and Donizetti, Verdi et al. not to merit occasional airings, which the latter composers seem to enjoy with even their most mundane works. And the economics and logistics of the opera "biz" nowadays both work against a substantial broadening of the repertory. The big opera houses, even my beloved MET, all have repertories that have pretty much ossified.

--Sixtus

[allegroamabile]

Handel is Italian opera, and he's german.

He was born and raised German, but he did spend a specific amount of his career in England. He also did die a British citizen and was buried in Westminster Abbey Cathedral in London.

Next up would I guess be Elgar's Gerontius, but that dates from 1900

Elgar's The Black Knight is an attractive English oratorio dating from 1893.

By saying English opera, is your teacher referring to nationality or language?

[pml]

Most of Handel's operas were for an Italian opera company in London, were they not? (And thus Italian operas composed by a German transplanted to England.)

I’d call it a stretch to call Elgar’s oratorios like The Black Knight (or Der schwarze Ritter) operas – especially as the one you cited is not much more than a half hour in length. Have the more substantial works such as King Olaf or Caractacus ever been staged?

The rarely-performed operas of Havergal Brian make an interesting quintet (The Tigers; Turandot, prinzessin von China; The Cenci; Faust; Agamemnon) in that two were adapted and abridged by the composer in German from the plays of Schiller and Goethe.

As for English operas referring to nationality or language – probably both!

Cheers, Philip

[steltz]

I'm not sure length counts any more -- Scottish Opera recently launched "Five:15", a series of five 15 minute operas. Following that example, the University of Cape Town in collaboration with the Cape Town Opera company did "Five:20", commissioning five South African composers to write modern South African operas. I haven't seen the full Scottish five, but the Cape Town production was stunning.

The Black Knight might be excluded on other grounds, but I don't think timing would be one . . . .

[allegroamabile]

Barber's A Hand of Bridge is another brief, ten minute opera in English.

[pml]

Yes, but by an American… we think the comment concerned specifically English composers living in England composing in the English language! PML

[steltz]

Would that be the royal we?

[Eric]

they're not popular or often revived, though the BBC have broadcast excerpts, but there are quite a few 19th-century British operas by such composers as (you'll find articles about them on Wikipedia and some of their music on IMSLP, in some cases) John Lodge Ellerton, Charles Villiers Stanford, John Barnett (1802-1890), John Addison, Frederick Ouseley, Edward James Loder's "Raymond and Agnes" (premiered 1855 in Manchester), and others. (Some better than others of course.)

Though Alan Walker's description of mid-19th-century musical life in England and elsewhere (though with England singled out as something of an extreme in the social position, or lack thereof, of its musicians, among other problems) in the 2nd volume of his Liszt biography is something of an eye-opener that may explain a few other things.
ES