Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

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Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby imslp » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:25 pm

I am pleased to announce that IMSLP will most likely be partnering with a music publishing company to provide on-demand printing of most of the items on IMSLP. This is a very flexible and individualized service, so any unique requests will be processed if possible. Of course, there are also stock items/configurations that users can order.

This service will at first be available only to users in the US, though we are looking into expanding this service to other countries.

I want to open the discussion here to all IMSLP users to comment on how this service can best serve the needs of IMSLP users.
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby daphnis » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:19 pm

Sounds great! I do hope users will have to option to select certain paper sizes and weights along with consideration given to page turns and other layout details.
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby perlnerd666 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:54 am

I'm curious as to the capacity of a single print—the more the better, but a really good binding is most important to me. Lay-flat bindings that don't deteriorate or lose pages are thin on the ground...
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby steltz » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:45 am

I second the binding concerns -- please not ring binding?
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby coulonnus » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:55 pm

Could this partner company please study our thread http://www.imslpforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2391&start=0 about binding - ring or not - problems?

I doubt this music publishing company can correct page turn and other layout details if the source score scanned - or the re-typeset score - is incorrect :D
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby imslp » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:42 pm

I'm under the impression that the publisher will definitely take requests for alternate binding possibilities as well as any binding concerns people have. I also understand that the publisher will actually check the score before doing the job, and refund your money if there are major flaws with the scan. However, I do not know how deep this check goes at the moment.

I'll direct the publisher to read this thread.
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby chimark » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:16 pm

Some answers to the questions in here and in the other thread for you:

- Page sizes will be standard US paper sizes - doing anything else increases the cost of the service significantly
- The paper we use is 24 lb white paper, which was best received in the tests we did with a number of musicians - its sturdy and has a good finish. When we tried heavier papers, we experienced challenges with finish and difficulty writing on the paper
- Our standard binding options are flat-bound/saddle-stitched for documents of fewer than 90 pages and coil-bound for documents of more than 90 pages. Flat-bound allows for a flat lying book (this is binding with staples on the fold) for performing. Coil-binding are the flexible coil along the spine with holes punched in the pages.
- When an order is received, we will review the file if it has not been printed before and contact the person ordering if there are any issues with the file, such as pages where items are overly faded, cut off, or if something won't print well due to the color scheme. They will have the option to continue with the purchase at that time or cancel with no charge to them.
- We will make efforts to correct & improve layout where possible - for example, many of the B&H orchestral parts have large white space around the borders, which we will crop to allow for larger print of the music. We'll also rotate pages slightly as needed to address issues with scans and insert blank pages to improve page turns if the current layout of parts will allow it.

That all being said, since this is entirely on demand printing, we can do custom binds & paper as well, though the costs for those are higher since we're not contracted to our print house for those items. Right now we have the following binding options:
- Flat/Saddle-Stitched (staple on the seam)
- Coil
- Plastic Comb (not recommended at all)
- Tape (closer to a traditional book, but without the stitching or hard spine)
- Thermal binding (as close as we can come to a hard back book - this is glue based and is more similar to a Dover score, but with a hard cover)

Depending on how much interest there is, we've been pondering buying our own thermal binder, which would lower the cost to us, but would take a lot of people purchasing to justify the upfront cost.

For paper weights & sizes, we can do pretty much anything needed as long as we can get the paper in stock - that's where the cost goes up significantly, since 10x13 and other common paper sizes used by traditional publishers are not regularly stocked by any suppliers we've found - they're primarily used in traditional (and costly) offset printing. We can get ahold of the paper - it's just a more costly option.

I think that answers all of the direct questions, so I'll answer a couple of the other concerns I've seen elsewhere on the forums and potential concerns you may have.

One of our goals is to make printing affordable - digital on-demand printing helps us out with that. Since we can contract with our print house for standard sizes and print types, we're able to offer this service to IMSLP users for less than it would cost for them to take the print job to FedEx Office, Staples, etc. and have the file printed. The pricing also is lower than the cost for printing at home on your own printer for most people. We're not doing this to make large amounts of money - after we provide 15% of the purchase price to IMSLP to help offset the costs associated in running IMSLP and donate 15% of the proceeds to performing organizations, we will generally barely cover the cost of printing. We're doing this to keep music accessible to everyone and help performers avoid paying more than they should for access to works.

I've seen a number of concerns regarding composers who have posted their works to IMSLP and having their works sold. Our plan is to only print those works that are completely in the public domain, not those that have had limited rights released by posting them to IMSLP. Of course, if an individual composer wants to make their works available for ordering, we're happy to talk to them individually, but we would not offer works for print without an agreement with the composer.



I hope that answers the questions and concerns you've shared - I'm happy to answer anything else that comes up.

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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby perlnerd666 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:44 pm

What ranges of pages could you print (i.e. maximum and minimum numbers per vol.)?
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby chimark » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:47 pm

Individual parts can be as small as one sheet/page with scores going up to 800 pages/400 sheets double-sided
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby perlnerd666 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:55 pm

Thanks. That sounds great!
[EDIT: I like these prices]
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby perlnerd666 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:21 am

Is there any way to print all of the files under an entry as a single book? Better, many files in general as one? I'm thinking of operas that are split by number, etc.
Or maybe Fauré's songs in 2 volumes :)
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby Carolus » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:25 am

I just placed an order (for a couple of facsimiles of Haydn symphonies in manuscript). I have to say, the system appears to work with great ease. The order page was easy to understand and the basic process seems to work quite smoothly. To top it all off, the prices are literally impossible to beat. As we have just seen from this evening's excitement, IMSLP does not come free - and a percentage of any orders will help with new servers when they're needed!
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby chimark » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:49 am

perlnerd666 wrote:Is there any way to print all of the files under an entry as a single book? Better, many files in general as one? I'm thinking of operas that are split by number, etc.
Or maybe Fauré's songs in 2 volumes :)


The way the system is set up today, we have to manually create an option to do this - since many places in the library have two different copies of a score in one block (or files with separate movements and a complete score), we elected not to systematically create products for this. In cases where it makes sense (i.e. four movements of a symphony in separate files), we'll be creating a product in the system manually that allows for ordering all in one booklet with one click. If that hasn't happened yet, it's a matter of clicking add to cart for each file.

Now that things are live, I'll be adding additional graphics/text on the site to indicate options for special orders - another option for you would be to use this to contact us and provide a list of the files you're interested in rather than having to click through each file.


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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby imslp » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:51 pm

chimark wrote:If that hasn't happened yet, it's a matter of clicking add to cart for each file.


Just a note that while this might work, it is somewhat counter-intuitive, and I'm not sure people will know this without you telling them. This is because usually separate products in a cart are separate items; it takes a bit of a mental leap to see separate products as bound together (and then we have the question of whether everything in an order is bound together or not). Just my 2c.

Also, Mark, would you mind providing a short informal list of ordered stuff after a week or so? I'm just curious as to how the system is used, and to make any adjustments as necessary.
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Re: Announcement of new IMSLP collaborations and RFC

Postby chimark » Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:30 pm

imslp wrote:Just a note that while this might work, it is somewhat counter-intuitive, and I'm not sure people will know this without you telling them. This is because usually separate products in a cart are separate items; it takes a bit of a mental leap to see separate products as bound together (and then we have the question of whether everything in an order is bound together or not). Just my 2c.


Agreed - I'll see what I can come up with as I add in the special ordering instructions this afternoon to talk about binding, etc. - this has been the one barrier in my mind on how to make things work easily - we've made a lot of progress on it, but still have room to go.

imslp wrote:Also, Mark, would you mind providing a short informal list of ordered stuff after a week or so? I'm just curious as to how the system is used, and to make any adjustments as necessary.


Of course! Looking through things this morning, I'm pleasantly surprised by the obscurity of some of the works people are at least clicking through to view.
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