bass excerpt books

[bigfishums]

I have excerpt books published in 1960 by Fred Zimmerman of public domain works (mozart, beethoven, etc). They contain fingering and bowing suggestions. Can I upload those, or are the fingering and bowings copyrightable?

[KGill]

They cannot be posted here, unfortunately - Zimmermann died in 1967, making him under copyright in Canada and the EU, and I believe these are actually arrangements of works not originally for bass and piano, correct? If there were only a few bowing/fingering suggestions, their copyrightability would be debatable in certain countries (depending on how extensive they were), but there is almost no way a full arrangement would not be subject to copyright. No, I'm afraid they will have to stay off IMSLP for another seven years or so (Zimmermann will fall out of copyright in Canada on 1 January 2018).

[bigfishums]

No, the books are orchestra bass parts - not arrangements or transcriptions with piano - just the bass part. They are literally the public domain versions like what are already uploaded here for various symphonies but with his fingerings and bowings. So the question is whether or not his bowings and fingerings fall under copyright when the actual music is the exact original versions of public domain symphonies.

[haydenmuhl]

bigfishums, I assume this book is excerpts for the purpose of audition preparation and other study. I'm no copyright expert, but there may also be concerns with the copyright on the book as a whole. Zimmerman had to make editorial decisions as to what to include and what to exclude in order to compile this book from its various sources. Each excerpt may be public domain, but the collection of them together could constitute a copyright-able work.

Besides Zimmerman's added fingerings, is there any accompanying text talking about the works?

[steltz]

If the fingerings and bowings have to come out due to copyright, then there may not be any point in taking the trouble to scan and upload if we have a full bass part for a symphony anyway. This might not be the case for something where we either don't have the work at all or have full score only, part of the part being better than none of it.

[bigfishums]

The bass excerpt books I have are complete works (there actually is a different set of books by a different zimmerman that are selective excerpts from within different works but that's not what i'm talking about). One book will have all the beethoven symphonies. Another has 8 full mozart symphonies.

There is no text, just literally fingerings and bowings.

[KGill]

I still think it can't be posted here. It certainly doesn't fall under the 'work for hire' argument, and especially if he published them specifically for the purpose of disseminating his fingerings and bowings, there's really not much question they exceed the 'threshold of originality' and deserve a term of copyright.